Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

Tre has a ton of W's in the trade column. Mike Smith trade worked out, Lazar for Jokipakka and others trade seems to be a win, Chiasson trade was a win, Hudler trade was a win, Max Reinhart trade a win, Glencross trade was a win

Don't think a lot of GM's has his skills of trading.

If this were true I think it would have amounted to more than a first round sweep and a (likely) playoff miss.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

If this were true I think it would have amounted to more than a first round sweep and a (likely) playoff miss.

What do you consider a loss trade for Tre? Personally, while most will say Hamonic, I really don't think so. So many unknowns with those draft picks. You can have a boom or bust with picks. At the time of that trade, we're in an imminent breakout mode so mortgaging futures made sense. Other than the Granlund trade, maybe the Baertschi trade, which at the time was a good trades and fans were happy about, I can't see any glaring losses.

Our biggest issue will always be Sam Bennett not developing to expectations. Likely will be a later bloomer but his initial trajectory and when the team is planning the future is based on him being a strong role in that top 6, which never ended up happening.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

If this were true I think it would have amounted to more than a first round sweep and a (likely) playoff miss.

So you're saying it's not true, because of bad goaltending in last year's playoffs and something that hasn't happened yet?

[EldrickOnIce]

Mirtle just published a story in the Athletic listing 10 GMs on the hot seat this spring.
Treliving's name is not on it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

What do you consider a loss trade for Tre? Personally, while most will say Hamonic, I really don't think so. So many unknowns with those draft picks. You can have a boom or bust with picks. At the time of that trade, we're in an imminent breakout mode so mortgaging futures made sense. Other than the Granlund trade, maybe the Baertschi trade, which at the time was a good trades and fans were happy about, I can't see any glaring losses.

Our biggest issue will always be Sam Bennett not developing to expectations. Likely will be a later bloomer but his initial trajectory and when the team is planning the future is based on him being a strong role in that top 6, which never ended up happening.

I'm still content with the Hamonic trade - he is underrated here. I was getting unhappy with the Lazar trade but I'm coming around. Bollig, I suppose is a bad trade, but so minor.

[Macho0978]

The biggest issue I have with CP is they assume other GM's never make bad moves or have what appeared to be good moves turn out bad

Also all people on CP and even within the media seem to fall into 2 categories. Positive or negative and almost everyone is very good at pointing out when they were right but ignore the things they were wrong about

For all those consistent negative posters. They probably said I knew Brouwer was a bad move. I knew we over paid for Hamonic. But those same people probably said Mike Smith? Really he isn't Ben Bishop good. Frolik at 4.3? He's terrible. Really going into a season with Ferland on the first line?

In sports so many good players have injuries we don't know about, off ice issues, bad luck, or just flat out less efforts because I got my new 7 year contract for 6 mil per year that it's impossible for anyone to be even close to perfect. Treliving is doing an excellent job and most people we're calling for a long 5 year painful rebuild since Iggy, Jay Bo and Kipper left and this year is year 5. We are right on track and based on prospect pool, age of core and cap space moving forward things look to be moving up rather than down. 0 reason to not have confidence in Treliving at this point

[Corral]

Missing the playoffs in a year when your team has no picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft is - one way or another - a blemish on the GM for overestimating his lineup or underestimating its vulnerabilities.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by the2bears

So you're saying it's not true, because of bad goaltending in last year's playoffs and something that hasn't happened yet?

It was a bad goaltending by a goaltender that was brought in by Treliving. And if your defence o Tre relies on us not being mathematically done yet, it is evaporating.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Corral

Missing the playoffs in a year when your team has no picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft is - one way or another - a blemish on the GM for overestimating his lineup or underestimating its vulnerabilities.

3....3 rounds.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Corral

Missing the playoffs in a year when your team has no picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft is - one way or another - a blemish on the GM for overestimating his lineup or underestimating its vulnerabilities.

I'm not advocating the GM getting fired but this is totally fair. It hasn't been a great season for the GM and he should deservedly feel some heat this summer to ensure he makes some corrections as this team can't afford to miss the playoffs two seasons in a row. There needs to be some progress made next season.

[gunnner]

In general you have to like the construct of the team but hate the results. To me that means the GM deserves at least another year, the coach does not

[Robbob]

At the end of the day I am not worries about not having picks early this draft because it looks like they have some solid picks after the first round in previous years. IMO that made the trades manageable.

Valamiki, Fox, Dube, Andersson, Kylington, Parsons etc are good prospects/chips going forward. The other thing worth noting is that a good chunk of them are Dmen, which are worth their weight in gold.

I think sometimes draft picks have an increased value because of the whole magic box thing. I liken it to a new car, once it is selected and taken off the lot the value drops. Sometimes the car is an exotic car and value doesn't diminish and can even increase. Most of the time it is a domestic car and sometimes it turns out to be a Lada or Skoda.

I am okay with the price paid for a cost controlled Harmonic for 3 years. People pay the same price for rentals.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Corral

Missing the playoffs in a year when your team has no picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft is - one way or another - a blemish on the GM for overestimating his lineup or underestimating its vulnerabilities.

Or it's been a bad and anomalous year. Teams sometimes are in the POs and then for various and random reasons miss the postseason (but are back right away and with a vengeance in some cases). Like Tampa last year, the Caps in 2014-15, Bruins (for 2 years in a row) a couple years ago, Sharks in 14-15...

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It was a bad goaltending by a goaltender that was brought in by Treliving. And if your defence o Tre relies on us not being mathematically done yet, it is evaporating.

Note that it wasn't "bad goaltending by a bad goaltender". Trading for any player is a risk, and there are going to be trades that don't work out - sometimes spectacularly. At the time it was a pretty reasonable risk.

Over all I think Treliving has done more good than bad, by a fair margin. If you're bothered by my "defending" him I think your own evaluation is very short-sighted.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It was a bad goaltending by a goaltender that was brought in by Treliving. And if your defence o Tre relies on us not being mathematically done yet, it is evaporating.

Elliott was a pretty good risk based on numbers. And he was a big part of the reason they went on a a run and made the POs.

[Vinny01]

Treliving took over this team that was in the infant stages of a rebuild.

He took over a team that should have been blown up 2-3 years sooner. Our previous GM got less value for Iginla, Tanguay and Bouwmeester than Treliving got for Glencross, Hudler and Russell.


If the playoffs are missed this year it is time for Treliving to feel some heat but he shouldn’t even be considered to be on the actual hot seat. He should get at least one more coach hire and I am confident he will be able to trade his way into making this a better team.

This was a team that had many assuming the rebuild would be extremely long. Since the Flames changed the guard we picked in the top 10 3 times and made the playoffs the other 2 years. Our top 3 scorers are under 25 as is our top scoring Dman. This team looks good moving forward.

Treliving should absolutely get more time with this team. Firing him would be moronic.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Treliving took over this team that was in the infant stages of a rebuild.

I was just thinking about this. The miracle run in 14-15 kind of messed things up building-wise. Calgary was a fairly high lottery pick the year before and after, so that was probably their natural position. They would have likely been in Hanifin/Provorov territory, given they picked 4 the year before and 6 a year later.

Now, Treliving took steps to address D by getting Hamilton, but that accelerated the timeframes and changed expectations. But IMO, at the end of the day Calgary would be in much the same position as today. I don't think they are far off from a very successful rebuild.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Corral

Missing the playoffs in a year when your team has no picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft is - one way or another - a blemish on the GM for overestimating his lineup or underestimating its vulnerabilities.

Missing is bad and not having picks is bad. Having said that I don't agree with posters who look at this year as all in and make or break due to the Harmonic. Tre may well have overestimated where the team is or the team may have underperformed or been poorly coached, but the fact that he focused on a player with term means he's looking at the whole window not just a single year. Sucks that this year isn't working out but we're in pretty good shape for the next few years.

I worry the wheels will fall off 3-4 years from now when key players get older or bolt for UFA and we don't have the prospect depth (realistically the players we would have chosen this year won't be major contributors until then). But I'm ok if we can enjoy a few really competitive years in the meantime. Not a long term view, but I have limited patience at this point.

[Roof-Daddy]

I definitely give Treliving more time but he clearly overestimated this team and dropped the ball by leaving himself without any high picks in whats likely going to be a non playoff year.

Even if they make it now he cut it too close IMO.

[dino7c]

Hamonic is not a rental though...if they can upgrade the forward ranks and dominate in future years Hamonic will likely be a large part of that. He can feel a little heat if they don't make it but he didn't go all in on this season...he went all in on 3-4 years. Slow start but much to be decided.