Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[d_phaneuf]

Top 2 lines are probably top 10 in the league as a pair, the 3M line has been really unlucky with results but they still drive play so a bounce back year next season is likely

Defense isn't as good as expected, many including myself thought it was in the argument for best top 4 in the league but without Brodie returning to form of a few years ago it's an excellent top pairing, one of the best, with a better than average second pair and middling 3rd

Goaltending has been better than expected definitely

I don't see the jets comparison, they had a lot of young high end offensive prospects improving or coming in and right now outside Bennett the flames don't, and while I don't think he's a bust his ceiling is dropping pretty quickly

Biggest issue is depth though, the bottom 6 and bottom pairing need improvements this summer, either internally or through FA

This is where treveling needs to find ways to improve both to make the next step, I know there are some defenseman that could make the jump from Stockton so I think that can be internal, but through some good external bottom 6 additions is where the difference next year come from imo

The stuff above posted by Enoch root is illuminating in how many non producers there are in the depth players

Cant just have a 3rd line anymore that treads water, the good teams even have 4th lines that chip in offense now

Don't see the flames being a huge player this summer in terms of big moves, but I would expect a big overhaul in depth moves. Status quo isn't enough

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

This team reminds me of Winnipeg a year ago.

Not even close. Jets is a big team. The problem they had for years is getting penalty troubles. They were an indiscipline team. Sure they had a few pickups last summer and picked up Stastny on trading deadline, but the Peg is a faster and bigger team that can really score.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Some of Treliving's worst moves:
-Trading away Stempniak for a 3rd and flipping that 3rd for Bollig
-Signing Brouwer
-Trading a 2nd for Lazar
-Giving chances to people like Glass and Grossmann at the expense of some of the younger players. This might be Gulutzan's doing.
-Not firing the coaching staff months ago

There's a common denominator with these mistakes; these are all low-skill high-grit players. Now we're getting almost no scoring from the 3rd and 4th lines.
I have faith that Treliving has learned from the obvious.

But a lot of this might be Burke's doing as well.

Stricltly in regards to "in the expensive of younger players", what young guy has proven themselves to be deserving of a spot so far? Jankowski but he was only sent down for 17 games and while looks like an NHLer, it's not until Sam Bennett had to finally be moved from center, opening up a 3rd line C spot. Kulak behind Bartkowski but that looks like a Gulutzan choice rather than Treliving.


I think the biggest thing that Treliving has continued to struggle with is finding value and production in his bottom 6. Some of it is out of his hands (Bennett continuing to struggle, Jagr's body finally going kaput) and others are bad bets (Glass, maybe Brouwer, Lazar).


There's definitely a lot of major pluses like Hamilton, Frolik and drafting Tkachuk on the top end of things. Treliving is definitely a solid GM. The great ones find those depth players who contribute again and again as you cycle through.

[MarkGio]

Why are people blaming Treliving?

We recently discovered from the Brian Burke interview that "If he hears about a trade minutes before it happens, his GM would be fired" and that any plans is discussed with him in advance.

I attribute the Flames poor roster on some of the long term plans and scouting, most notably:

1) Trading away Baertschi, Granlund, and Picks
2) Poor 2013 draft (ie, Klimchuck, Kanzig and Poirer)
3) Poor pro and amateur scouting (ie, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Brouwer and Bennett)
4) Poor 2014 draft (ie, Smith and McDonald)
5) Poor staffing choices (ie, Cameron, Gulutzan, Sigalet and Scouts)

Imagine for a second Flames draft Hartman, Theodore and Duclair in 2013. Dvorak in 2014. Had they filled their bottom six with talent through proper scouting, they wouldn't need to sign Brouwer, trade for Hamonic, trade for Lazar, and/or acquire filler players like Versteeg, Jagr and Stewart. Imagine if they hired Bednar, Stevens, or kept Hartley (although, I suspect firing Hartley was motivated by upcoming player contract extensions).

Treliving is just one guy, a new GM, and answers to Burke on every major move before they're carried out.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hamilton is a far more valuable player than Barzal...sometimes I wonder about CP

Top goal scoring D man in the league who plays on one of the top pairs statistically. Hamilton is not our problem

Barzal is a 20 year old right shot centre who is over a point per game in his rookie year. Dynamic skater, dynamic hands plays a premium position.

Far more valuable? I think it's debatable but I do like Hamilton.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Barzal is a 20 year old right shot centre who is over a point per game in his rookie year. Dynamic skater, dynamic hands plays a premium position.

Far more valuable? I think it's debatable but I do like Hamilton.

D is a more premium position...yes far more valuable. 14 goals on one of the leagues best pairings and only 24. Drafted 9th overall for a reason and was a sure thing.

You do the Hamilton trade every single time...Oilers wish they did lol

Besides who knows who the Flames take with their pick.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dino7c

D is a more premium position...yes far more valuable. 14 goals on one of the leagues best pairings and only 24. Drafted 9th overall for a reason and was a sure thing.

You do the Hamilton trade every single time...Oilers wish they did lol

Besides who knows who the Flames take with their pick.

Where do you get this from? I have no interest in slagging Hamilton but Gio is more a reason for top pairing billing than Hamilton.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Where do you get this from?

Reality...it took 1st overall Taylor Hall to get the Oilers Larsson

Top pairing Dmen are next to impossible to acquire and hold ridiculously high value around the league. Hamilton is 24 and is about to have is 4th season over 40 points. He has 14 goals on the back end which is at the top of the league. Not sure what else to say...its pretty obvious

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Reality...it took 1st overall Taylor Hall to get the Oilers Larsson

Top pairing Dmen are next to impossible to acquire and hold ridiculously high value around the league.

Hall was a winger and using Chiarelli's trade as the benchmark is silly

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Hall was a winger and using Chiarelli's trade as the benchmark is silly

If you offered Hamilton to Snow for Barzel he would hurt himself trying to get to the fax machine so fast. A 24 year old RHS D man who has 14 goals and has yet to peak? Those are rarely ever available and an absolute premium in the NHL value wise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Hall was a winger and using Chiarelli's trade as the benchmark is silly

lol so...he was a first overall pick and had an 80 point season. Value=what someone is willing to pay. This is silly...any GM would take the 24 year old top pairing d man who leads the league in goals IMO.

Karlsson has 6 goals and 47 points this season at the age of 27 and is about to net the Sens a Kings ransom the likes of which the NHL has never seen.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol so...he was a first overall pick and had an 80 point season. Value=what someone is willing to pay. This is silly...any GM would take the 24 year old top pairing d man who leads the league in goals IMO.

lol. So what if he's a first overall, he is a winger a less premium position than centre. Do you think Seguin would've went for Larssen 1:1? Think Dallas would have had to add?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If you offered Hamilton to Snow for Barzel he would hurt himself trying to get to the fax machine so fast. A 24 year old RHS D man who has 14 goals and has yet to peak? Those are rarely ever available and an absolute premium in the NHL value wise.

If you say so. Like I said I like Hamilton and don't want to slag him but Sweeney let him go for picks. BOS doing pretty good with Sweeney as GM

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If you say so. Like I said I like Hamilton and don't want to slag him but Sweeney let him go for picks. BOS doing pretty good with Sweeney as GM

Irrelevant to the conversation...Sweeney wanted to sign Dougie but the player wanted to move on.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Irrelevant to the conversation...Sweeney wanted to sign Dougie but the player wanted to move on.

He took picks

[Jeff Lebowski]

With the notion of D over C. When drafting (players were drafted to be 1C or top D) Tavares over Hedman and Mackinnon over Jones. Perceived value.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

He took picks

Actually he made him an "significant contract offer" which Dougie declined. Sweeny was worried about an incoming offer sheet so he accepted a deal that would give him the picks at an accelerated rate. (that draft)

His words...and again Irrelevant to the "debate"

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If you offered Hamilton to Snow for Barzel he would hurt himself trying to get to the fax machine so fast. A 24 year old RHS D man who has 14 goals and has yet to peak? Those are rarely ever available and an absolute premium in the NHL value wise.

I could be wrong because you know I haven't asked him but I don't think he does trade Barzal for Hamilton. I think Barzal is pretty much untouchable.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

With the notion of D over C. When drafting (players were drafted to be 1C or top D) Tavares over Hedman and Mackinnon over Jones. Perceived value.

Drafting is different than a known commodity...dmen take longer to develop and are harder to project at the NHL level.

[dino7c]

The fact that its even debatable (kinda I think you are way off) looking back with hindsight and making the best possible pick the Flames could have made just shows how good of a deal it was. Calgary likely doesn't choose him

Anyway we could go on and on...