[PGT] Flames fall apart again ... Lose 5-2 to the Avs

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Going to the second round of the playoffs was horrible. I hated that.

And a lottery team every other season...Team had major struggles under Hartley no matter how people would like to remember it.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

This team (with largely the same core and leadership group) wasn't weak under Bob Hartley.

Under Hartley, the Flames were 134 W - 135 L - 25 OTL

I'll never understand the infatuation with Hartley after one BS season where the Flames had a horseshoe up their arse. Hartley was terrible.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Under Hartley, the Flames were 134 W - 135 L - 25 OTL

I'll never understand the infatuation with Hartley after one BS season where the Flames had a horseshoe up their arse. Hartley was terrible.

Remember that team was fresh into a rebuild, they were going to be terrible. If anything, Hartley overachieved with that group. Getting that horseshoe season was a lot more than anyone should've expected during those years.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by dino7c

And a lottery team every other season...Team had major struggles under Hartley no matter how people would like to remember it.

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Under Hartley, the Flames were 134 W - 135 L - 25 OTL

I'll never understand the infatuation with Hartley after one BS season where the Flames had a horseshoe up their arse. Hartley was terrible.

You're both missing the point of what I just said.

The Flames had just blown it up (aside his first season, where they started to blow it up). Of course they were going to be a bad team for some of Hartley's years here. They were expected to be bad. A .498 winning percentage with the roster he had is quite impressive if you ask me.

Given the rosters Hartley had, what more did you expect out of him? He played a fast, exciting brand of hockey that was always entertaining.

[Corral]

12 - 5 to reach 97 points. That would be like the best stretch of the season. Nothing we've seen of late suggests this is about to happen. Very dim prospect of playoffs this year.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Corral

12 - 5 to reach 97 points. That would be like the best stretch of the season. Nothing we've seen of late suggests this is about to happen. Very dim prospect of playoffs this year.

Even if we win 7 straight, we're just gonna lose 6 straight to answer

Although...

7-2-4 in the next 13 games would leave us in a not so terrible spot. We did do that when you look at our 7 straight wins followed by our 6 straight losses.

Our record during our streaky play between December 31st and February 9th:

Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, OTL, OTL, OTL, OTL, Loss, Loss, Win, Win, Win, Loss.

24 points in the final 17 games. 97 points at the end.

Eesh, it's going to be tough, but we've done it already this season...maybe we can do it again.

[GranteedEV]

Hartley pretty much gets a mulligan for the lockout year. No training camp, completely different style from Brent, and starting goaltender hurt all year.

which leaves us with three seasons to evaluate.

The Flames were expected to be the worst team in the NHL in 2013-14 with their torn down roster and the employment of guys like Chris Butler and David Jones it was sipposed to be a crap year. Giordano also had an injury. And Hartley had some issues with his usage of Backlund early on. But most would agree that that was when this team's hopes started to turn around as they starting playing a very successful and consistent brand in the second half of the season. It was the least painful 26th place season ever.

The next year the team was probably the mentally toughest team in the NHL. People talk about comebacks but that team was excellent at holding on to leads and even the loss of Mark Giordano didn't phase them. They went into some huge do or die games against Dallas, Colorado, and Los Angeles and simply buried their playoff hopes with their reslience and teamwork. Descriptions of how that team included buzz words like hard-working, hard-skating. Their motto was "Never Quit". They trailed against Vancouver by multiple goals in game 6, had to make a goalie change and all Ramo did was allow a goal almodt immediately... so they went and won that game anyways out of sheer determination. They were completely out.atched by Anaheim from a roster perspective and were expected to get swept. Well they won game 3, had an unlikely lead in game 4 that was pissed away by one an individual player (Colborne) meltdown, and they lost an overtime game to finally be eliminated. The team was the gold dtandard for mental toughness.

The next season they added a new player and there were issues with how they defended. Brodie had missed a handful of games and Hiller wasn't tracking the puck through traffic at all. They were buried early and looked dead in the water, but started to outscore their problems and found themselves right back in a playoff spot in December. Then Ramo got hurt in January and they had a huge road trip in which Hiller was a sieve against bottom feeding teams and they shut it down. They traded away their third leading point producer and their third leading TOI defenseman for picks. But they never fell apart, and finished the season as strongly as a team rolling top line winger Hunter Shinkaruk and top 4 defenseman Jyrki Jokipakka could have. Their reward was Matthew Tkachuk, who would instantly be our second best offensive forward as well as a key defensive piece.

And then Gulutzan came in. Not everything under Gulutzan has been mentally weak. The ten game win streak last year, the seven game win streak this year. This core is still resilient. But they lack the confidence in their ability to do it consistently, and that comes down to Gulutzan's systems and player usage, not mental weakness. I believe in this core. They need better periphery players (like Andersson instead of Stone and Mangiapane instead of every bottom six winger) and a style better suited to using this team's strengths towards generating offense when the goalie isn't posting a .944 road SV%.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Even if we win 7 straight, we're just gonna lose 6 straight to answer

Although...

7-2-4 in the next 13 games would leave us in a not so terrible spot. We did do that when you look at our 7 straight wins followed by our 6 straight losses.

Our record during our streaky play between December 31st and February 9th:

Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, OTL, OTL, OTL, OTL, Loss, Loss, Win, Win, Win, Loss.

24 points in the final 17 games. 97 points at the end.

Eesh, it's going to be tough, but we've done it already this season...maybe we can do it again.

Well, if the Flames do pull it off and make it in they'll be well positioned for a run. Entering the playoffs that hot would be more than ideal.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Yup GG has taken them to wildcard or just out of wildcard spots. Now its time to take the Flames to the division titles and winning playoff rounds. Honestly think AV is the next coach of the Flames.

respectfully, the Flames do not currently have the talent to compete for division titles. much work to be done in the offseason.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by dino7c

And a lottery team every other season...Team had major struggles under Hartley no matter how people would like to remember it.

And the Flames are still a lottery team every other season, just no first round pick this year. Could be an awful summer

[Scary Eloranta]

I wonder when fan apathy sets in. I'm pretty much there myself. Hard to get motivated to get down to the dome to watch these bums. I'm not sure any coach could turn these guys around - and I'm not sold on our prospects - especially our goalies!

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

and I'm not sold on our prospects - especially our goalies!

Our 2 young goalies filling in right now have a combined 22 NHL games of experience. They aren't ready for starter jobs yet but I think they've shown a lot of promise.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Remember that team was fresh into a rebuild, they were going to be terrible. If anything, Hartley overachieved with that group. Getting that horseshoe season was a lot more than anyone should've expected during those years.

Maybe the low expectations played into it, but even when they lost it was often entertaining. The comeback wins and beating the Canucks in the playoffs was hella fun.

GG's Flames are often like watching paint dry in comparison.

[Samonadreau]

I think we can all agree there is work to be done to get this Team to where it needs to be to compete for Stanley Cup. For this season if they can get in to the playoffs you never know what could happen. But aside from a miracle run Tre and company are going to have to reassess everything this offseason from top to bottom including coaching staff, players/roster, player development, professional scouting and management. The only thing that seems to be firing all cylinders is amateur scouting over the past 3 seasons.

That being said the season is far from lost. Time to put the work boots on and get wins, that's really all that matters at this point. No excuses, just win.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I'll never understand the infatuation with Hartley after one BS season where the Flames had a horseshoe up their arse.

Horseshoe seasons are the only thing this fanbase has had to cheer about in a quarter of a century.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hartley pretty much gets a mulligan for the lockout year. No training camp, completely different style from Brent, and starting goaltender hurt all year.

which leaves us with three seasons to evaluate.

The Flames were expected to be the worst team in the NHL in 2013-14 with their torn down roster and the employment of guys like Chris Butler and David Jones it was sipposed to be a crap year. Giordano also had an injury. And Hartley had some issues with his usage of Backlund early on. But most would agree that that was when this team's hopes started to turn around as they starting playing a very successful and consistent brand in the second half of the season. It was the least painful 26th place season ever.

The next year the team was probably the mentally toughest team in the NHL. People talk about comebacks but that team was excellent at holding on to leads and even the loss of Mark Giordano didn't phase them. They went into some huge do or die games against Dallas, Colorado, and Los Angeles and simply buried their playoff hopes with their reslience and teamwork. Descriptions of how that team included buzz words like hard-working, hard-skating. Their motto was "Never Quit". They trailed against Vancouver by multiple goals in game 6, had to make a goalie change and all Ramo did was allow a goal almodt immediately... so they went and won that game anyways out of sheer determination. They were completely out.atched by Anaheim from a roster perspective and were expected to get swept. Well they won game 3, had an unlikely lead in game 4 that was pissed away by one an individual player (Colborne) meltdown, and they lost an overtime game to finally be eliminated. The team was the gold dtandard for mental toughness.

The next season they added a new player and there were issues with how they defended. Brodie had missed a handful of games and Hiller wasn't tracking the puck through traffic at all. They were buried early and looked dead in the water, but started to outscore their problems and found themselves right back in a playoff spot in December. Then Ramo got hurt in January and they had a huge road trip in which Hiller was a sieve against bottom feeding teams and they shut it down. They traded away their third leading point producer and their third leading TOI defenseman for picks. But they never fell apart, and finished the season as strongly as a team rolling top line winger Hunter Shinkaruk and top 4 defenseman Jyrki Jokipakka could have. Their reward was Matthew Tkachuk, who would instantly be our second best offensive forward as well as a key defensive piece.

And then Gulutzan came in. Not everything under Gulutzan has been mentally weak. The ten game win streak last year, the seven game win streak this year. This core is still resilient. But they lack the confidence in their ability to do it consistently, and that comes down to Gulutzan's systems and player usage, not mental weakness. I believe in this core. They need better periphery players (like Andersson instead of Stone and Mangiapane instead of every bottom six winger) and a style better suited to using this team's strengths towards generating offense when the goalie isn't posting a .944 road SV%.

I'm out of thanks, so Thank You!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Maybe the low expectations played into it, but even when they lost it was often entertaining. The comeback wins and beating the Canucks in the playoffs was hella fun.

GG's Flames are often like watching paint dry in comparison.

They really only had the comeback wins in the miracle season. The next year they couldn't repeat it (even before they traded Hudler and Russell).

[Mathgod]

The 2015 Flames barely squeaked into the playoffs and won the first round series against a mediocre Canucks team that was ravaged by injuries. Was it overachievement? Yes, but not as much as some make it out to be.

I don't see a body of evidence that suggests that Hartley was a great coach.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by dino7c

People are calling a spade a spade...not all his fault but Rittich hasn't been good enough. Flames are barely allowing any chances.

You think .900 save % and 3.11 GAA is good enough at this level? Its not

How many games do you expect the Flames to win 1-0 or 2-1?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by zamler

How many games do you expect the Flames to win 1-0 or 2-1?

How many do you expect them to win 5-4 or 6-5?