The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Captain Obvious statement on my part, but loser organizations don't fire coaches & GMs frequently because they make the right call when hiring those positions. The Flames, I believe, made the right call with Treliving. He did not make the right call with Gulutzan. His next one, given what he knows now and what he has shown as a GM, is likely to be that right decision. I truly believe that.

I counter your point with the Panthers firing Gerard Gallant.

He took them to a 100+ point season for the first time in their history. They had a bit of a rough start to the next year after the lineup was DRASTICALLY altered due to some AGMs influence on getting "advanced stat darlings" on the team instead of some of the other guys on that 100+point team. 20 games in, they fired Gallant in a reactionary move to attempt to save the season. The team tanked, and hasn't really recovered since. There has been a power shift yet again in the management of the Panthers to where Tallon was put back in charge. It will be a struggle to even make the playoffs this year whereas Gallant has coached Vegas to the best record in hockey.

I'm not saying that Gulutzan's job is safe, but I sure hope there is some careful analysis of the pros and cons of him as a coach before a change is made. Grass is not always greener and all that.

[DuffMan]

should've traded for a power play at the deadline

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I have a tough time understanding how the Flames added Smith - a starting goalie who has played at an all star level to replace Elliott who had a terrible year. They added Hamonic. a top defender to replace well past his prime Wideman. They added Stone for the entire year to assemble what many were saying was the league's best defense in the off-season. Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Ferland are all having excellent years.

And yet the team is no better in the win-loss column as last year.

This is the million dollar question. A couple of major roster upgrades, career years from several key players, no really significant injuries (though Smith is shaping into one), and yet here we are with a team that's 20th in the league in goal differential.

The rebuild is over, and the Flames are a playoff bubble team that needs to go on a run to get in as a wildcard. So who ####ed up?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The rebuild is over, and the Flames are a playoff bubble team that needs to go on a run to get in as a wildcard. So who ####ed up?

I don't see it that way.

The core rebuild is over, and looks fine. Now it's the depth portion of the lineup that needs to be overhauled.

Additionally there's a pretty nice second wave of defenseman coming along.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I counter your point with the Panthers firing Gerard Gallant.

He took them to a 100+ point season for the first time in their history. They had a bit of a rough start to the next year after the lineup was DRASTICALLY altered due to some AGMs influence on getting "advanced stat darlings" on the team instead of some of the other guys on that 100+point team. 20 games in, they fired Gallant in a reactionary move to attempt to save the season. The team tanked, and hasn't really recovered since. There has been a power shift yet again in the management of the Panthers to where Tallon was put back in charge. It will be a struggle to even make the playoffs this year whereas Gallant has coached Vegas to the best record in hockey.

I'm not saying that Gulutzan's job is safe, but I sure hope there is some careful analysis of the pros and cons of him as a coach before a change is made. Grass is not always greener and all that.

As this decision will be made by a GM and management staff not in flux or in the midst of a roster turnover I'm confident that the proper due diligence will be exercised. The stability at the GM position should allow for a more measured look at what needs to be changed.

Fire the GM and well, all bets are off.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think LA getting the results they have through changing coaches (promotion from within) showed teams just what a culture shift from a coaching point of view can do.

I think Vegas doing what they've done stresses the importance of strong leadership from the bench, and the results it can yield.

Does Chicago opt to copy LA? Kevin Dineen's name has been talked about around the league for ages - do the Hawks promote him? If that happens, alongside the rumoured end of AV with the Rangers...what sort of chain reaction does that start?

Didn't the Kings fire Darryl Sutter who was a 2 time Stanley Cup winning coach who so many posters here yearn for? Well if John Stevens is a better coach then Darryl and Stevens is barely out performing Gulutzan, would that mean that Darryl is worse than Gulutzan?

As for the Knight's Gerard Gallant, guy is a decent coach. But he doesn't even match lines. He just throws whatever line out there willy nilly and lets his incredibly fast and skilled team take care of the rest. Gallant isn't some supreme tactician of the game who's won cups or had unreal playoff success, he's just lucky he inherited a helluva team who nobody has heard of. Their speed and skill trounces our edge and truculence all day and any day.

As for AV and Quennville and etc, they'll go to make a ton of dough but they better choose a team wisely or they may end up in a rough situation like McLellan who interesting may also be canned this summer even though he's owed millions for the next couple seasons.

[The Fonz]

Gulutzan is 2 losses to Edmonton away from going 0-4 in the playoffs, and 0-9 against the Oilers, in his 2 seasons as Flames head coach.

That's a truly remarkable feat, should he accomplish it. I'm not joking. Going 0-13 in what were arguably this team's most important games over 2 seasons would be astonishing, and indefensible, IMO.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Didn't the Kings fire Darryl Sutter who was a 2 time Stanley Cup winning coach who so many posters here yearn for? Well if John Stevens is a better coach then Darryl and Stevens is barely out performing Gulutzan, would that mean that Darryl is worse than Gulutzan?

As for the Knight's Gerard Gallant, guy is a decent coach. But he doesn't even match lines. He just throws whatever line out there willy nilly and lets his incredibly fast and skilled team take care of the rest. Gallant isn't some supreme tactician of the game who's won cups or had unreal playoff success, he's just lucky he inherited a helluva team who nobody has heard of. Their speed and skill trounces our edge and truculence all day and any day.

As for AV and Quennville and etc, they'll go to make a ton of dough but they better choose a team wisely or they may end up in a rough situation like McLellan who interesting may also be canned this summer even though he's owed millions for the next couple seasons.

Granted, but he's had a lot of success in the regular season before, so this isn't a big surprise.

He's notorious for getting the most out of his lineup. He's a perfect hybrid of a player's coach and a task master. His style is an uptempo attacking style which works well with a young quick lineup. It's the perfect tactics for the roster he has, and he's maximized the talent he was given, which wasn't great to begin the year.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You didn't see an issue with Bob Hartley's performance?

Terrible underlying numbers, terrible standing in the league, and then a year end press conference suggesting they needed to block more shots.

Oh Bob had definite performance issues. But he also could fall back on the spectacularly bad goaltending performance of Hiller (.879 sv%) and his 1st round playoff win the season prior. Gulutzan doesn't have any of that to fall back on.

Treliving fired Bob mainly because they didn't see eye to eye on playing style. I remember Bob's post season media presser where they asked Bob what the team needed to do to improve on this season and he said something to the effect of, "we need to block more shots and win more faceoffs."

Ha! I could only imagine in the mind of Treliving he must have instantly thought right there that he needed to get rid of this guy and hire a corsi and analytics based coach so that they wouldn't need to rely on shot blocking so much.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't see it that way.

The core rebuild is over, and looks fine. Now it's the depth portion of the lineup that needs to be overhauled.

With what assets?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

With what assets?

The organizational strength in on the blueline. It appears that Andersson is ready by all reports. Kulak took a step this year to become a full time NHLer.
So you move one of the top 4 (probably Brodie) or one of the blue chip prospects for a scoring RWer

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Greg Gulutzan signed a 3 year contract - and is about to conclude year 2.

From what I can tell, it's never actually been confirmed how long Gulutzan's contract is. At one point, I think Cap Friendly had it listed as a 3 year deal (which is supposedly their default although they currently have his term left blank).

I've also heard it speculated in the media that his contract was 2 years + a one year team option.

If it is a 2 year with + a team option, and we've heard nothing about the option being exercised, that would leave him as a potential lame duck coach to finish off this season.

If the team isn't confident enough to take up the option at the beginning of this season and let this year determine if he continues, then the results so far IMHO suggest they probably should have made a change prior to the Christmas break when things were looking grim and there was time to recover.

Again, all assuming that he has a 2+1 team option (which may not be the case)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

With what assets?

Duh, with Gord Baldwin, Greg Nemisz and John Arnold.

Once the flames get Andrei Tarathukin in the lineup at the #3 spot, they are playoff bound for sure.

WIth Matt Keetley and Kevin Lalande in net and Akim Aliu on patrol, the Flames are destined for a cup.

[The Fonz]

CapFriendly has actually pulled Gulutzan's contract status entirely. Safe to say (and I think they even admitted to Bingo) that it's all just speculation.

[nik-]

at least Groundhog Day had Bill Murray going for it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That wouldn't be my interpretation.

Teams have limited assets, limited cap space, and the market is limited to only x number of players that fit your needs and 30 other teams competing for them.

You can't fix the entire laundry list in one off season.

He went after goaltending and locking down the defense core, but he knew that he was relying on internal growth and some luck up front, was honest about it and said as much to Bob McKenzie.

The process shows that this wasn't a win now or else year from the owners or the management.

His recent quotes suggest he thought they'd be further along than they are, but he always knew scoring was the next area to tackle.

I'm really surprised to read this, Bingo.

Moving 2x1sts, 4x2nd, a 3rd and a 5th on 3 defenders in three years it not in any way addressing the structural issues plaguing the organization. It's like buying bandaids for internal bleeding.

The team has spent through the nose just to look respectable. This hasn't addressed in any way the structural failings of the club and in fact has made them worse.

You can't fix the laundry list in one season, and you certainly can't fix it by trading away draft picks for developed roster players. The Lazar trade should be an outright scandal right now for a team that looks like it might not make the dance this year.

In consecutive deadlines they've moved out draft picks for warm bodies. This is largely the same strategy employed by a long list of Flames general managers up to this point, Treliving just happens to be better at making trades and we don't yet have the benefit of hindsight to judge how truly awful or remarkable these trades are.

Like I said in another post, the team has 4 playoff round wins in 29 years. Moving a ####load of draft picks in consecutive seasons for basically 0 ROI in terms of success is an abject failure.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

at least Groundhog Day had Bill Murray going for it.

Lock the thread, this post says it all.

[jemjey]

I don't agree that we need to provide "quality analysis" to "prove" or infer that GG is not a good coach. You can't really "prove" a subjective opinion, you can only provide the rationale behind it, which is what I believe many posters have done.

We can just look at his results and observe that in his time here he has not been objectively good. I am of the opinion that he is not a good coach, specifically, not for this team at this time. That opinion is simply based on his record with us and personal observation.

While I agree that some posters have an irrational dislike for GG, I don't think that discredits the entire idea of him not being the right coach for us. Also, I disagree that the discussion and analysis we have seen here is for the sake of "proving" that he is a bad coach. Rather, I think that discussion (i.e., misuse of players, game management, locker room culture) is simply an explanation of the reasoning behind our (the GG haters) opinions.

I don't think it is fair to characterize all the GG haters as fanatics who think they should coach in the NHL. There are a lot of valid reasons to hold these opinions, as have already been discussed.

I'm curious as to the rationale behind the pro-GG group's opinions, what makes you believe he is a good coach? Possession stats? Stability?

Hope this post makes sense, still haven't fully woken up.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by jemjey

I don't agree that we need to provide "quality analysis" to "prove" or infer that GG is not a good coach. You can't really "prove" a subjective opinion, you can only provide the rationale behind it, which is what I believe many posters have done.

We can just look at his results and observe that in his time here he has not been objectively good. I am of the opinion that he is not a good coach, specifically, not for this team at this time. That opinion is simply based on his record with us and personal observation.

While I agree that some posters have an irrational dislike for GG, I don't think that discredits the entire idea of him not being the right coach for us. Also, I disagree that the discussion and analysis we have seen here is for the sake of "proving" that he is a bad coach. Rather, I think that discussion (i.e., misuse of players, game management, locker room culture) is simply an explanation of the rationale behind our (the GG haters) opinions.

I don't think it is fair to characterize all the GG haters as fanatics who think they should coach in the NHL. There is a lot of valid rationale behind these opinions, as has already been discussed.

I'm curious as to the rationale behind the pro-GG group's opinions, what makes you believe he is a good coach? Possession stats? Stability?

Hope this post makes sense, still haven't fully woken up.

Definitely a lot of rationale in this post.

[Strange Brew]

I agree with many posters who suggest it’s likely the Flames move a blue liner to address other needs. Which really exposes how questionable the Hamonic acquisition was. One year of an all star blue line corps seems to have given the Flames nothing and now they have much less flexibility in terms of trades had they simply kept the picks.
Hamonic, although signed for multiple years, was certainly expected to have an impact on results this year.