Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[Kiran403]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

What’s the illicit market been like in Colorado and Washington states?

The illicit market in both these states has diminished signifcantly. The area that still poses a problem is people growing cannabis and shipping it out of state for sale since a lot of neighbouring states don't have cannabis programs. However, this problem is mitigated in Canada since cannabis will be legal at a federal level and every province will have access to it.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most dispensaries are going to be shut down because they're illegal. The ones that transition to legitimate businesses are going to have substantially higher costs once they have to pay licensing fees and taxes, and meet strict regulatory standards.

People think the grey market dispensaries are what a legalized market will look like. They're not. The government tolerated them while we sorted out legalization. Once the legal retail regime is in place, the government is going to crack down on dispensaries, and crack down hard. Legit retailers will have to meet strict health and security regulations, pay taxes, and have minimum pricing. In Ontario, sales will be confined to government stores.

Those articles I linked to cover this stuff in depth. We don't have to exchange anecdotes.

Again this is total media speculation and most likely just plain wrong. The better dispensaries out here have already bought business licenses and pay GST. Like matty said, the prices are already comparable to what Terry sells and aren't likely to change.

Alberta may do things a little different but it won't be that different. Cliff...stop believing everything you read, it's all just baseless speculation. Ontarios proposal will suck but I'm guessing it will change. B.C. already has an infrastructure set up for distribution with the dispensaries, why would they change it? They won't.

I'm not a chronic or heavy user but I know people who are and nobody uses a dealer anymore.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

What’s the illicit market been like in Colorado and Washington states?

Colorado doesn’t have to go through a government monopoly for their supply as far as I know, and they sell everything u could think of including bho

[Flames_Gimp]

The proposed price is more than double what a “terry” can do.. that doesn’t make a difference,? I’ll never pay 300 for an oz lol that’s a stupid amount

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Colorado doesn’t have to go through a government monopoly for their supply as far as I know, and they sell everything u could think off including bho

Isn’t Ontario the only province that is going to be having a government “monopoly”?

[8sPOT]

I don't see why you wouldn't go to the storefront or online to make your purchases. Unless 'Terry' is your buddy and its just part of your routine to stop by and get your product.

But I have never seen the variety of products available on the black market that you can currently get online and in stores starting this summer. I will never deal with another 'Terry' again. I know several people don't use online because they don't want others in the household to know about it.

The Black market will shrink considerably and the only reason it will survive long term is if they're able to sell their products for cheaper. But even then, I'll take the convenience of going to a store whenever it suits me and having a good idea of whats in the various products that are available.

Tried an edible this past weekend too and wow I was surprised how effective that was. What a time to be alive people!

[iggy_oi]

I think the biggest advantage licensed producers and stores will have over Terry is that you know exactly what you are getting and can pick and choose which strains work best for you. I basically quit using cannabis for years because the stuff I would get from Terry didn’t always have the desired effect. It was either not strong enough or too strong, I don’t like indica strains at certain times of the day and I like to have CBD only strains for other times in the day. If you ask Terry what the THC content is in his product he’s probably not going to have a very accurate answer.

[puckedoff]

Not a smoker, but I imagine as kids today or new buyers into the market place who don't have a 'Terry' are going to be way more inclined to just go to the store than to try to poke around and find a dealer. So while the black market may exist near term, over time it will no doubt diminish materially.

[Matata]

One thing that makes weed different than other prohibitive substances is that it is super easy to grow yourself. A $2K investment, 6'x6' of floor area, a little know how and easy maintenance adds up to grow op that can grow ~0.5-1 lb of great weed a year, at $7/gram, that gets you $1600-$3200. That's a pretty tempting little turn-key operation anyone can throw together in their basement.

[iggy_oi]

I think the biggest thing holding back Terry enterprises from being able to compete will be the selection in stores. Whether it be for medicinal or recreational use each user has a desired reaction they want from cannabis. Terry having one or two untested strains isnt going to compete with a vendor who has multiple different strains at different THC/CBD levels for you to choose from. Not to mention I expect there will be people who would never have ever smoked cannabis when it was illegal who will be open to trying and using it now that it is the same as booze. Those folks will likely never go to Terry no matter how cheap his product is.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Matata

One thing that makes weed different than other prohibitive substances is that it is super easy to grow yourself. A $2K investment, 6'x6' of floor area, a little know how and easy maintenance adds up to grow op that can grow ~0.5-1 lb of great weed a year, at $7/gram, that gets you $1600-$3200. That's a pretty tempting little turn-key operation anyone can throw together in their basement.

How many people who will be growing for 'personal use' are going to sell some to friends on the side? Lots.

More importantly, the black market offers discounts at volume. People who want to buy a gram of weed a couple times a month at $10 a gram are going to be happy to buy from a retailer. Someone accustomed to buying an ounce every 2-3 months for $200 (28 grams at $7 a gram) is not going to find the legal retail environment as enticing.

[Fuzz]

Terry might stay in business in Ontario due to their incompetence in handling this, but in places like Alberta where we have private companies and very few restrictions? Terry is out of business. Aurora just invested in the retail space:

Aurora Cannabis Inc. has inked a deal to buy a minority stake in an Edmonton-based liquor store corporation which plans to launch a brand of cannabis retail stores across Western Canada.

Liquor Stores plans to use the money to establish and launch a brand of cannabis retail outlets.


The retailer says it will convert some of its existing stores into cannabis outlets and establish new locations.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ores-1.4520096

Convenience is going to kick Terry's ass. Poor Terry. Hope he has EI.

[Kybosh]

I'm sure Terry is an alright dude, but he has no idea what's in his product other than, it's like, totally chill man. Licensed producers have to diligently audit their product for composition and contaminants and you'll be paying more for the knowledge that the product is what they say it is. I doubt Terry is going to bother doing any sorts of analysis for heavy metals and doesn't give a crap about whatever fungicide and pesticide he decides to use, or any of the other growing conditions.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How many people who will be growing for 'personal use' are going to sell some to friends on the side? Lots.

More importantly, the black market offers discounts at volume. People who want to buy a gram of weed a couple times a month at $10 a gram are going to be happy to buy from a retailer. Someone accustomed to buying an ounce every 2-3 months for $200 (28 grams at $7 a gram) is not going to find the legal retail environment as enticing.

like the guy i buy home brew from, or the neighbour who grows great zuchini's in the summer.

[8sPOT]

Also, I've seen mentioned a few times that the $7/gram translates into $196/ounce. That's just not the case, most places will have say $7/gram and that same strain is $145 an ounce or something like that. So there absolutely is an advantage to buying bulk through the establishment. Not to mention assuming they take credit card i can collect points, Terry can't offer that same level of service.

[jayswin]

This Terry thing is starting to get as repeated and annoying as "joe the plumber", lol.

[Flash Walken]

Cliff, have you ever actually been inside a marijuana dispensary?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Cliff, have you ever actually been inside a marijuana dispensary?

No. Are you aware that most of these dispensaries are considered the grey market, and the rules for legal retail pot are going to be different?

Seriously, read the articles I've posted. It's not me against CP here. It's CP against all of the government, legal, scientific, and economic bodies studying the issue in Canada. They all expect only a gradual erosion of the share currently held by a deeply entrenched black market. They all warn that expected pricing of legal pot will continue to make the black market an attractive alternative for many users. Has reading the news, reports by government officials, etc. gone completely out of fashion?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'm always amazed at people who will take 15 minutes to post arguments about a subject, but won't take 5 minutes to read a couple stories about that same subject to increase their knowledge.



I never made the claim the black market is impervious to business disruption. I'm just pointing out the consensus of experts that the black market will still continue to have a large share of the pot business in Canada once it's legalized.

And if you want precedence, how about the precedence of pot legalization in Washington, Oregon, and Colorado, where studies put the black market share of consumption at 51, 49, and 27 per cent, respectively.

Down from 100, 100, and 100.

You’ve built a fantasy of the impervious Terry to who just keep trucking along despite everything. I would suggest you do more than spend 5 minutes reading a couple articles, and instead, look into actual insiders. Your trust of media speculation far outweighs it’s worth.

The main problem is that you’re drawing improper conclusions or inflating the very existence of the black market as something problematic.

The fact is, dropping your market share from 100 to 27% is crushing. And that is exactly what is going to happen. Nobody thinks it’s going to just magically happen overnight, so I hope you’re not basing your entire argument off that. But like liquor, people are going to lol at the idea of buying black market marijuana in the future. It’s a foregone conclusion.

I’m just not sure what your motivation in this conversation is. What’s your point? Cannabis will be legal, the market will expand in the coming years, and the black market will shrink to statistical insignificance.

The black market will take a huge hit this summer, another when edibles and concentrates come on for retail, another as the enforcement of those outside the legal market cracks down, and an ongoing hit as people just realise breaking the law to buy questionable product from questionable sources is just kind of pointless.

Terry is a dead man walking. Argue until you’re blue about how much time he’s got on his hands, but death row is death row.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No. Are you aware that most of these dispensaries are considered the grey market, and the rules for legal retail pot are going to be different?

Seriously, read the articles I've posted. It's not me against CP here. It's CP against all of the government, legal, scientific, and economic bodies studying the issue in Canada. They all expect only a gradual erosion of the share currently held by a deeply entrenched black market. They all warn that expected pricing of legal pot will continue to make the black market an attractive alternative for many users. Has reading the news, reports by government officials, etc. gone completely out of fashion?

Appealing to authority aside i'm trying to ascertain whether you're being dishonest or don't know what you're talking about.

Dispensaries sell at a discount for volume, like every single other retailer out there. Government liquor stores give me a volume discount depending on the size of bottle I'm buying. A mickey on a per ounce basis is more expensive than a 26.

Like, what are you even arguing here? That Terry won't go out of business fast enough? I've completely lost the plot here.