Should we adjust our expectations for this team?

[troutman]

This team struggles in any game that has any electricity - ex. rivalry games, games against Canadian teams.

Does not bode well for playoff success should they get in.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by troutman

This team struggles in any game that has any electricity - ex. rivalry games, games against Canadian teams.

Does not bode well for playoff success should they get in.

i.e., this team doesn't show up for big games, and we have a 1.5 season sample size.

If things haven't changed yet, they are never changing under this group.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

This team struggles in any game that has any electricity - ex. rivalry games, games against Canadian teams.

Does not bode well for playoff success should they get in.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

i.e., this team doesn't show up for big games, and we have a 1.5 season sample size.

If things haven't changed yet, they are never changing under this group.

This is just not true. Yes, for some weird reason the Flames struggle with the Oilers, but they have been consistently winning games against the Ducks and the Kings—teams with whom they are more likely matching up in the playoffs. When they were fighting tooth-and-nail with the Blackhawks for playoff positioning before the New Year, the Flames beat them. When they were in a dead heat with Minnesota in the first week of January, they beat them.

Of course, the team is not going to win all their games against teams in their weight-class, but it is disingenuous to suggest that losing "big games" is a pattern. Losing to the Oilers has become a pattern, but that is something entirely different.

[Toonage]

I also think some fans and some media play up games as being big games when to the players, they may not see it quite the same. Toronto & Montreal for example. Fans are excited, media is all over it, but do the players really see those games as being the big ones? Hard to get upset for them not getting up for the big games if they personally don't identify them as such. yeah I know, they're all big games, but you get what I'm saying CP.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is just not true. Yes, for some weird reason the Flames struggle with the Oilers, but they have been consistently winning games against the Ducks and the Kings—teams with whom they are more likely matching up in the playoffs. When they were fighting tooth-and-nail with the Blackhawks for playoff positioning before the New Year, the Flames beat them. When they were in a dead heat with Minnesota in the first week of January, they beat them.

Of course, the team is not going to win all their games against teams in their weight-class, but it is disingenuous to suggest that losing "big games" is a pattern. Losing to the Oilers has become a pattern, but that is something entirely different.

I'm talking about something a little different than "big games" in the standings. I'm talking about games where there there is a lot of juice in the stands, especially at home. MTL, TOR, EDM, VAN. They seem to play too tight in these games.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm talking about something a little different than "big games" in the standings. I'm talking about games where there there is a lot of juice in the stands, especially at home. MTL, TOR, EDM, VAN. They seem to play too tight in these games.

That might be true, but I don't see what that has to do with gauging potential playoff success.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That might be true, but I don't see what that has to do with gauging potential playoff success.

I'm worried that when there is a big buzz in the building, they are thrown off their game. How will they cope with that pressure? They seem rattled in these games.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That might be true, but I don't see what that has to do with gauging potential playoff success.

Kudos for calling Rittich as the starter last night. i have said previously that his emergence as a probable NHL goaltender is a very positive change from last year - despite the fact the team's performance in the standings is similar. likewise with Jankowski. Both extremely positive. Jankowski in particular helps to sooth the pain of watching Bennett struggle this year.

I just think expectations for this year from many was just way too high for the Flames this year. I expected - Make the playoffs - maybe win round one. For me - that is a success in 2017/2018.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Corral

Kudos for calling Rittich as the starter last night. i have said previously that his emergence as a probable NHL goaltender is a very positive change from last year - despite the fact the team's performance in the standings is similar. likewise with Jankowski. Both extremely positive. Jankowski in particular helps to sooth the pain of watching Bennett struggle this year.

I just think expectations for this year from many was just way too high for the Flames this year. I expected - Make the playoffs - maybe win round one. For me - that is a success in 2017/2018.

I generally agree. I think where you and I differ is on the timetable. I think there is an opportunity for this team this year to make a push—not that I expect it to happen. I view the next three years as the time for the Flames to start contending for championships.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I generally agree. I think where you and I differ is on the timetable. I think there is an opportunity for this team this year to make a push—not that I expect it to happen. I view the next three years as the time for the Flames to start contending for championships.

Yes - i'm firmly in the view that cup contention is in the bottom half of the Gaudreau-Monahan deals

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm worried that when there is a big buzz in the building, they are thrown off their game. How will they cope with that pressure? They seem rattled in these games.

Again, they seem rattled in games vs. the Oilers for some reason, but I don't see the same thing against other teams.

I think this concern is overblown. Do they get thrown off their game when playing teams with whom they are jockeying for playoff positioning? I don't see it. This seems like a much more appropriate gauge to evaluate how they might perform against these SAME teams when the actual playoffs begin.

[Duffalufagus]

I'm adjusting my expectations for Jankowski. no points in his last 6 games. Just not good enough. He is part of the secondary scoring problem along with Bennett. I have no expectations for Hathaway, because he just isn't very talented offensively.

Janko will be a 20 gaol guy in this league. I just thought it might be this year. Now I would be happy with 13. which is not good enough if you want to be contender.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I'm adjusting my expectations for Jankowski. no points in his last 6 games. Just not good enough. He is part of the secondary scoring problem along with Bennett. I have no expectations for Hathaway, because he just isn't very talented offensively.

Janko will be a 20 gaol guy in this league. I just thought it might be this year. Now I would be happy with 13. which is not good enough if you want to be contender.

This seems to me to be incredibly premature. I can only think anyone would be disappointed with Jankowski if they somehow thought he would just insert himself into the NHL and instantly start to dominate. Well, the League does not work that way, and Jankowski's regular season production in his rookie year should probably not be used to gauge long-term success for the team.

But even then, it would not be unheard of for a player like Jankowski to figure things out as the season progresses and to become a difference maker as soon as this year's playoffs. Ryan Getzlaf had 14 goals and 39 points in his rookie year, and followed that up with a good playoff and a 57-point season in his second year. That year he became absolutely dominant in Anaheim's run to the Stanley Cup, and then he never looked back.

Jankowski is not as good a player as Getzlaf, and he is learning to play in this League at an older age than Getzlaf. But I think the analogue holds—at least for now. Jankowski still shows so much potential, and I think it is a mistake to defer that or limit our anticipation of it on the basis of a rough stretch of games. He is a rookie. An older rookie, but a rookie nonetheless, and practically all rookies are going to take time adjusting to the exceptionally difficult task of playing in the NHL, especially as the playoff-grind approaches.

[killer_carlson]

i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I don't think our GM can wait much longer, without a first round pick this year.

I wonder if he could trade for Quenville?

[djsFlames]

Tkachuk should have a mcdavid assignment next game.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

What? No, I don't think so. Vezina candidates are not usually offered a spot at the all-star game as an injury replacement. Smith has had a very good year, but I don't think he's in the conversation yet.

Oh come on. All star selection is your measuring stick?

Smiths numbers are better than quicks and fluery was picked for “feel good” Vegas reasons.

[taxbuster]

Frankly, I'm &*((^%%^^'ed if I know what to think of this team. I am pissed that they lost (again) to the Greasers. On the other hand, they are 11th in the league.

Think about that for a moment. 11th in the league. 7th in the conference. In a playoff spot (barely).

That's not too shabby.

With a REAL Power Play they'd actually be fine, and probably would have won a pile more games.

So: fix Dave Cameron or whatever.....and carry on?

Maybe GG is OK {{{shudder}}}?

Like I said....I have no idea what to think right now about the Flames.

Dammit.

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

We are making a cup run this year people, calm down. It will happen. Mark my words.

I'll even throw a bone out there and say the finals might even be a 2004 rematch.

[meh]

My Hope is different than my expectations:
Hope: Stanley Cup after 3 hard-fought rounds, win the Cup in 5 games.
Expectations: IF we make the post-season, maybe go 5 games first round.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Again, they seem rattled in games vs. the Oilers for some reason, but I don't see the same thing against other teams.

I think this concern is overblown. Do they get thrown off their game when playing teams with whom they are jockeying for playoff positioning? I don't see it. This seems like a much more appropriate gauge to evaluate how they might perform against these SAME teams when the actual playoffs begin.

While I tend to agree with your take about the potential playoff matchups, I think Troutman has a legitimate concern when he implies that there is something "off" about their collective ability to get "up" for games like the one last night. Granted, it was the second of a back-to-back, but still, a 2-0 lead did not suffice, when it should have.

My opinion is that only a handful of players on this team have a deep killer instinct--the desire to finish off a team when there's a chance to do so. Last night's loss stings more because it's the Oilers, but the reason the Flames haven't been able to seal-off leads in recent games is because of the powerplay. There just doesn't seem to be that sense of urgency to finish teams off when given the chance to, and the PP at 2-0 against Edmonton was a perfect example of what Troutman's talking about. In that situation, the players should be salivating at the chance to put in the dagger and crush the opponent's will. Instead, we get same-old-same-old, minimal possession, wrist-shots from the point off shinpads, and lost momentum.

The "getting up" for games includes the kind of swagger that Tkachuk possesses--the idea that YOU are going to set the tone and not let your opponent do so. While I know that this is not possible for every game, it should be apparent when you play your biggest rival, and it just isn't, like Troutman said.

Incidentally, the "for some reason" regarding the Oilers specifically seems to be that they've bought into the McDavid hype. Even the Sabres shut down McDavid by being physical with him, something only Giordano seemed willing to try yesterday. In many instances, the Flames were flat-footed/standing still in their defensive zone, watching the Oilers skate around with impunity. It's a similar vibe to that which they portrayed for all those games in Anaheim during that awful streak.