2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Big Erned Nevergivn

Your right, it would be worth it... The only problem is Ottawa would never make that trade!

Yet half of CP wouldn't do it!

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

First off, don’t pretend to know a thing about me personally. You don’t.

Second, Vegas is showing everyone that you don’t need an “elite” player to be a very good hockey team. Trading away key pieces and valuable assets for magic beans are not what wins you championships.

It’s adding complimentary pieces to an already good core. They don’t have to be elite. Just a really solid group from top to bottom.

Lol, don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Vegas - who are still a long way from winning the Cup at this point - is an exception to the rule and could easily be riding a high. Let's wait for one of their six alternate captains to lift the Cup before we anoint them a dynasty and start following their blueprint.

Again, you need to go back 30 years before you run into a team that did not have individual trophy winners, not that the team was full of scrubs. We're not just talking near top tier, but legitimately considered the very best at their role, at least at some point in their career. Often times, it's not just one elite talent, it's multiple.

Of course you need elite talent and depth. It's easier to get depth than elite talent. It's easier to find a good third liner in the draft or a trade, or overseas or in free agency, then it is to find top tier players. And a lot of time elite players like Tavares give the illusion of depth as you can play him with anybody and all of a sudden you got 2 scrubs looking like "20 goal scorers."

Whether it's the Flames or (far more likely) pretty much any other team, I believe it would be a good move to give Tavares pretty much whatever he wants. Elite talent is required to win a Cup, and if you don't have it, what's the point? Toil around in the middle of the pack, hope for a Cinderella run if you sneak into playoffs? Or tank for a top pick in hopes of receiving that elite talent? Players like Tavares pretty much never make it to UFA while still in their prime. He has the possibility to shape a franchise if he does go that route. I say good on whatever team does have the balls to get him.

But following my logic, Tavares has no Selke, Norris or Art Ross so he's not going to get you a Cup .

Also it's just silly to use Edmonton as an argument not to do anything. Could you imagine the next team with a 1st overall generational talent and be like "nah, drafting the best player in the world didn't work out well for Edmonton, let's grab some guy who might be a good third liner instead." Edmonton is going to Edmonton.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Why dont you list the far more numerous side of trades that have been disasters and often take years to recover from.

Such as? Genuinely curious as to a recent trade not involving the Oilers or perhaps the Bruins that could be considered disasters taking years to "recover" from.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I love how some use McDavid's deal as a reason not to sign a guy to 12 mil

1. That contracts hasn't even kicked in
2. Oilers suck because of McDavid? lol

Sure adding an elite superstar puts pressure on a GM to fill out the roster but the Flames are set up with a bunch of steal contracts. Adding an elite superstar at around 10-12 million won't cost them all their depth. Not even close.

Throw on top Gaudreau and Monahan are wrapped up for many year and when Gaudreau contract expires so does Gio. It could be years before they feel a real cap crunch

Also lots of teams acquired elite level talent to win Stanley cups

Chara?

Richards and Carter?

Hossa?

Nothing wrong with adding a big name to the Flames already good core

Except that's not true.

Calgary's cap hit in 2018 = $$57,866,710
Calgary's cap space in 2018 (assuming $75 Million cap) = $17,133,290

nine players are without a contract in 2018:
Backlund
Stajan
Versteeg
Jagr
Janko
Hathaway
Hrvik
Kulak
Bart
Rittich

And people are talking about using 12+ million for Tavares, leaving 5 million for the 9 roster spots remaing?

and just one year later these guys are up for new contracts:
Bennett
Tkachuk
Smith
Ferland
Mangiapane

how many minutes does Tavares play again?

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Except that's not true.

Calgary's cap hit in 2018 = $$57,866,710
Calgary's cap space in 2018 (assuming $75 Million cap) = $17,133,290

nine players are without a contract in 2018:
Backlund
Stajan
Versteeg
Jagr
Janko
Hathaway
Hrvik
Kulak
Bart
Rittich

And people are talking about using 12+ million for Tavares, leaving 5 million for the 9 roster spots remaing?

and just one year later these guys are up for new contracts:
Bennett
Tkachuk
Smith
Ferland
Mangiapane

how many minutes does Tavares play again?

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

JT is substantially better than any player on that list...you would obviously have to drop some players to make it happen. Thing is you could trade them for cheap young talent

Everyone is so worried about losing players from our current team...unless we go on a big run this spring who facking cares. We are about to find out if this current team is good enough to compete, right now they have an average record.

[GoJetsGo]

The Isles have been fortunate to run and gun their way to several gun fight wins with their top two lines being so potent... but they are a tire fire defensively and in goal. Like flirting with Arizona-level bad.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

You're actually proving my point. Why do you think the Flames have a shot? Because Gaudreau is contending for the Art Ross trophy and the Flames have elite defense (pairing). That's the back you'd win the Cup on. Especially if you could bring in another elite talent.

It's not because Ferland and Bennett.

Every team that has won the Cup since you've been alive, probably, did so because they had a past/present/future Norris Trophy/Selke/Art Ross trophy winner or combination of. I mean, it's not a coincidence.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Lol, don't know why you're taking this so personally.

I didn't even bother reading what you replied with after this.. Cause let's be honest here. You made it personal by pretending to know something about me, which you don't.

add to that, the moment I gave a differing opinion, suddenly you went on the offensive by being passive-aggressive in stating i'm taking what you said personally. So who's really taking it personally here?

So laugh out loud all you would like. I'm guessing you're the type that laughs in uncomfortable situations when you get called on your BS.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

The Isles have been fortunate to run and gun their way to several gun fight wins with their top two lines being so potent... but they are a tire fire defensively and in goal. Like flirting with Arizona-level bad.

They deserve more, when you think about how their entire awesome 2nd line of Beauvilier - Barzal - Eberle was giftwrapped to them by the Oilers and 2/3 of that was due to us snatching up Hamilton from right underneath their noses. TheScore had a great piece on it.

Eberle got gifted straight up.

The 16th overall and 33rd overall picks were traded for Griffin Reinhart in the aftermath of us getting Dougie. The 16th overall pick was used to select Barzal, while the 33rd overall was used to trade up to 28th OA to select Beauvilier.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Lol, don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Vegas - who are still a long way from winning the Cup at this point - is an exception to the rule and could easily be riding a high. Let's wait for one of their six alternate captains to lift the Cup before we anoint them a dynasty and start following their blueprint.

Again, you need to go back 30 years before you run into a team that did not have individual trophy winners, not that the team was full of scrubs. We're not just talking near top tier, but legitimately considered the very best at their role, at least at some point in their career. Often times, it's not just one elite talent, it's multiple.

Of course you need elite talent and depth. It's easier to get depth than elite talent. It's easier to find a good third liner in the draft or a trade, or overseas or in free agency, then it is to find top tier players. And a lot of time elite players like Tavares give the illusion of depth as you can play him with anybody and all of a sudden you got 2 scrubs looking like "20 goal scorers."

Whether it's the Flames or (far more likely) pretty much any other team, I believe it would be a good move to give Tavares pretty much whatever he wants. Elite talent is required to win a Cup, and if you don't have it, what's the point? Toil around in the middle of the pack, hope for a Cinderella run if you sneak into playoffs? Or tank for a top pick in hopes of receiving that elite talent? Players like Tavares pretty much never make it to UFA while still in their prime. He has the possibility to shape a franchise if he does go that route. I say good on whatever team does have the balls to get him.

But following my logic, Tavares has no Selke, Norris or Art Ross so he's not going to get you a Cup .

Also it's just silly to use Edmonton as an argument not to do anything. Could you imagine the next team with a 1st overall generational talent and be like "nah, drafting the best player in the world didn't work out well for Edmonton, let's grab some guy who might be a good third liner instead." Edmonton is going to Edmonton.

The Islanders already have taveres. Why would they trade him and not have any chance at a cup this year? Right? Cuz they have an elite player, they are cup contenders, right? Good points throughout. If you would give tavares whatever he wants, there is likely a GM position opening up in Edmonton soon, throw your hat in the ring your a shoe in.
.
Also particularly love the "small sample size" argument for vegas. The small sample size arguement went out the window a dozen games ago. As far as this season is concerned, they are the real deal. Long way from the cup for sure, but there is no question that they are going to get a chance to compete for it this post season. You can't even make that statement about the pengiuins, oilers, Islanders, all of which have elite talent.

Just because you have opinions and express them like they are the only valid opinions dosent make them, or you, correct.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dino7c

JT is substantially better than any player on that list...you would obviously have to drop some players to make it happen. Thing is you could trade them for cheap young talent

Everyone is so worried about losing players from our current team...unless we go on a big run this spring who facking cares. We are about to find out if this current team is good enough to compete, right now they have an average record.

Those are the numbers, not my numbers, judge them however you want

If it's that easy to do, "just trade players for cheap young talent" tnen BT, or any GM with a team on the cusp, should sign Tavares and be on their way

[bigrangy]

You mess up your cap structure by signing trash players to contracts they'll never live up to

You don't mess it up by paying star talents what theyre worth

Tkachuk-Tavares-x
Gaudreau-Monahan-x
x-Backlund-x
x-Jankowski-x

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-x
x-x

Starter
x

Any x that wants more than a million dollars can find themself traded for picks (Maybe not Ferland, but he'll get way overpaid on his next deal if he keeps this season up, Frolik would be a nice-to-have if you could afford him))

That roster up there would have a cap hit of 62 million give or take. You can fill the remaining 10 spots for 18 million easy if you have a halfway decent amateur/pro scouting staff

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

You mess up your cap structure by signing trash players to contracts they'll never live up to

You don't mess it up by paying star talents what theyre worth

Tkachuk-Tavares-x
Gaudreau-Monahan-x
x-Backlund-x
x-Jankowski-x

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-x
x-x

Starter
x

Any x that wants more than a million dollars can find themself traded for picks (Maybe not Ferland, but he'll get way overpaid on his next deal if he keeps this season up, Frolik would be a nice-to-have if you could afford him))

That roster up there would have a cap hit of 62 million give or take. You can fill the remaining 10 spots for 18 million easy if you have a halfway decent amateur/pro scouting staff

This statement gets over-used IMO. And is an over-simplification. What are they worth? Is it not possible to overpay them, simply because they are stars?

In a cap world, you need value. No matter how good the player is, if the price is too high, the value isn't there. Bad contracts for stars are just as destructive as bad contracts for role players.

People talking about paying Tavares whatever he wants - $15M, wtf?... he isn't getting that - but if having Tavares on your team is automatic success, where are the Islanders cups?

Paying him $12M or more is a suicide ticket for the franchise, IMO.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by prizefighterinferno

Such as? Genuinely curious as to a recent trade not involving the Oilers or perhaps the Bruins that could be considered disasters taking years to "recover" from.

Hamilton trade obviously.
Shattenkirk. Two years of picks with a first.
washington went nowhere.

Hanzal. Three years of picks. Minny went nowhere and pretty much admitted it was bad.

I feel like loading up a team which happens every year at the deadline have rarely produced cups. The margins are to small and giving up first round picks for short term players is risky at best and foolish at worst.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

The Islanders already have taveres. Why would they trade him and not have any chance at a cup this year? Right? Cuz they have an elite player, they are cup contenders, right? Good points throughout. If you would give tavares whatever he wants, there is likely a GM position opening up in Edmonton soon, throw your hat in the ring your a shoe in.
.
Also particularly love the "small sample size" argument for vegas. The small sample size arguement went out the window a dozen games ago. As far as this season is concerned, they are the real deal. Long way from the cup for sure, but there is no question that they are going to get a chance to compete for it this post season. You can't even make that statement about the pengiuins, oilers, Islanders, all of which have elite talent.

Just because you have opinions and express them like they are the only valid opinions dosent make them, or you, correct.

A little over dramatic. Look at the last 30 cup winners and the majority of them have superstars. He's not saying that's all you need but clearly it helps...A LOT.

Also like he said Vegas has a long way to go but even if you give them the benefit of the doubt they are the exception.
You don't model a team after Vegas and expect the same results. If it were that easy their story wouldn't be a story.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Hackey

A little over dramatic. Look at the last 30 cup winners and the majority of them have superstars. He's not saying that's all you need but clearly it helps...A LOT.

Also like he said Vegas has a long way to go but even if you give them the benefit of the doubt they are the exception.
You don't model a team after Vegas and expect the same results. If it were that easy their story wouldn't be a story.

While I generally agree and think Tavares would be amazing.... we already have a superstar who I dont think gets enough credit for being a superstar here.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Hackey

A little over dramatic. Look at the last 30 cup winners and the majority of them have superstars. He's not saying that's all you need but clearly it helps...A LOT.

Also like he said Vegas has a long way to go but even if you give them the benefit of the doubt they are the exception.
You don't model a team after Vegas and expect the same results. If it were that easy their story wouldn't be a story.

I really don't think it's dramatic at all. If the original assertion is that it takes talented players to win a cup, well no kidding. It's pretty much the hardest sports trophy to win in the world. It's a battle of attrition and a grueling schedule. But the suggestion that you can only win if you have someone that wins an award trophy, that's totally and absolutely crazy. Players win trophies generally for helping their team win the cup, or go deep in a cup run. Plenty of norris candidates that get over looked because their team didn't do anything. Or how bout because the media votes some of the award winners, there is an eastern bias?
How many of these superstars became known as superstars because they won the cup?? How bout the capitals? Loaded with talent, easy out in the first few rounds of the playoffs year after year. Ovi winning the rocket Richard trophy 6 times, you think they would be a shoe in. It's also easy to single out stars on successful teams. The fact that they are successful makes their best players superstars. If it takes elite talent to win the cup, why bother putting the fourth liners names on it? It would save alot of room, or at least allow you to put elite players names on it in bigger font. No team has ever won the cup with only 1 line. So no, my personal opinion is to reject that original assertion. It's too much of a blanket statement, and there is too many flaws to the logic.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

While I generally agree and think Tavares would be amazing.... we already have a superstar who I dont think gets enough credit for being a superstar here.

While I completely agree, it's too fun to armchair GM the possibility of having our current core plus Tavares for a lot of years.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Duplicate post

[Tbull8]

The way I look at it, Tavares at 12 million vs Backlund at 5.5 and Hamilton at 5.75 (close enough, less an entry level contract)

Tavares would be an absolute game breaker for this franchise and if you have the chance to bring him in for nothing but cap space, you make it work.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Those are the numbers, not my numbers, judge them however you want

If it's that easy to do, "just trade players for cheap young talent" tnen BT, or any GM with a team on the cusp, should sign Tavares and be on their way

I NEVER said it was easy...its HIGHLY unlikely JT comes here but if he wanted to you make it happen and deal with whatever other issues that creates.