Cory Sarich - Bob Hartley "was the worst coach I ever had"

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Pilots are paid to perform a certain task. As long, as they are able to do it safely, it is more or less tolerable to take a drink. It is also OK for pilots to eat whatever fast food they please.

Players are paid not just to perform, but to outperform opposition, who are presumably not drunk and at their best possible shape. Hence it is reasonable to demand them to not let alcohol and junk food to decrease their performance level.

Asking every NHL player be a teetotaler is not a reasonable request.

Corey Sarich is a 15 year NHL veteran with almost 1,000 games played. He was sat for 11 straight games and presumably showed up for practice on the 4th D line and because he's a vet, is certain that he will be a healthy scratch for the next night's game.

Presuming he is expecting that he's only in for a bag skate at the end of the next days morning skate and a couple of laps staying out of everyones way during warmup he goes golfing and has a couple of beers. Hartley finds out and puts him in to play mind games.

I've never played but can't imagine this power move is not something that is typically done to a vet like Sarich.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Pointman

While it is not possible to put you in charge of that team to find out whether you could have coached it to the Cup, there is still a way to legitimately compare your coaching skills to Hartley's. Hartley has started as a coach by coaching a junior team from his hometown to a championship while working full time as an assembly line worker. So go ahead and sign up to whatever junior or at least beer league team is looking for a coach, and try to coach them to whatever title they are competing for.

Of course he is a better coach than I am, it was obvious hyperbole, at least I thought it was obvious. But Hartley coached a team to a cup that was an obvious favourite to win. Maybe he was instrumental, however looking at the roster, I doubt that is the case. There are lots of mediocre coaches that win Stanley Cups. Marc Crawford is the prime example of that in this context in my view.

[jlh2640]

Like that he is sharing his opinion but he was at the end of his career that year and was brutal on the ice with a big cap hit.

[CSharp]

We can all complain about Hartley and how he's got one of the worse records as a Flames head coach. But, think about these:

1) If he had a better team, maybe his coaching record with the Flames wouldn't have looked so bad

2) If he had a better team, the Flames' rebuild would've been a lot worse. It was just too bad that his team rose to the occasion for one season while almost every team held back to position themselves for the McDavid sweepstakes.

3) I would almost have to question why the Flames didn't tank properly the one year when they had the opportunity to draft before the Oilers and yet the team decided to win games when they're supposed to lose. Thus, the Oilers got Draisaitl while the Flames got an injured Bennett.

4) Does anyone still thinks Bärtschi is that good of a first round pick?

5) With the way the Flames were turning over the pucks in their own zones, I don't doubt Hartley's system of going forward with the puck on zone exits. It was frickin atrocious at times when the Flames exiting out of their own zone only to have it passed back and then they get into a turnover and they're hemmed in their own zone for most of the period.

Yeah, Hartley's tactics as a hard-ass coach is likely to break everyone down and rebuild them back up to be better players. So, if it works great or else GTFO. It works for some and probably not for many who are used to the country club atmosphere. Maybe GG stick throwing tantrum with the media present kind of shows you what the coaching staff has to go through in order for the team to succeed.

So, do I care if Hartley was a bad coach as a Flames? No. All I cared was that if the Flames wanted a rebuild, Hartley was there to build a Flames team from ground up. It doesn't matter what went on behind the scenes as long as the team that he had was progressing and I think he did his job. Some players really just need to suck it up and be professional about it.

[Textcritic]

This is an odd post...

Originally Posted by CSharp

We can all complain about Hartley and how he's got one of the worse records as a Flames head coach. But, think about these:

1) If he had a better team, maybe his coaching record with the Flames wouldn't have looked so bad

Maybe, but this is not a given. Unlike Hartley's teams the current Flames have employed a style of play that is much more sustainable over the long term, and it looks to be starting to pay dividends now.

2) If he had a better team, the Flames' rebuild would've been a lot worse. It was just too bad that his team rose to the occasion for one season while almost every team held back to position themselves for the McDavid sweepstakes.

I, for one, am not remotely disappointed. I am also not convinced that any team other than the Buffalo Sabres "held back" in 2014–15.

3) I would almost have to question why the Flames didn't tank properly the one year when they had the opportunity to draft before the Oilers and yet the team decided to win games when they're supposed to lose. Thus, the Oilers got Draisaitl while the Flames got an injured Bennett.

You are upset that the Flames were not historically bad? And you somehow believe that management had some reasonable sort of control over the fortunes of other teams who were among the worst in NHL history? This is nonsense.

4) Does anyone still thinks Bärtschi is that good of a first round pick?

He ranks in the top-twenty in points-percentage among forwards in his draft class. Beartschi may not be a great first round pick, but he is certainly not a bad one.

[curves2000]

Playoff wins and long-term success: End of ****ing story.

I have heard some of the horror stories about Bob Hartley's time in the organization regarding the treatment of players from a human side of the ledger. A lot of the mental stuff and just being an a** for no other reason than to just be one.

He did though take a team that was rebuilding and with a lot of young players like Bennett, Monahan and Johnny and make the playoffs and win a round AND won a game vs Anaheim.

I am thrilled to death (joking) about Gully and his motivational tactics and good guy attitude and now that he got the team rolling by tossing a stick into the stands.

I am at the stage in life as a long time Flames fan all my life (33 years old) and I have seen enough organizational nightmares with this hockey club that I am putting a level of expectations in this management group and coaching staff sky high. I don't....

1) Care about excuses anymore from anybody. President of Hockey Ops and down
2) Want to hear about another first-round exit "we got swept but it was closer than the series indicated"
3) Special teams play is the key but than have a PP that is so inept it's best being used this season to go to the washroom, grab a drink and than fire off an email or text.

I want long-term high-quality success in the playoffs going forward. Other teams are able to do it, what's our issue? I want to see a brutal and heartbreaking loss in the western conference finals cause I want the feeling that next year were going to make the finals. I want a Stanley Cup and than I want the next year to actually be competitive for another Cup. I want some actual growth in performance WHEN IT MATTERS MOST. Like those Questrade Investment commercials ask "If the long-term performance isn't there, why am I paying these ridiculous fee's? To make you all rich?"

I am DONE with clapping my hands and giving props to the boys in April and HOPING and PRAYING for something good to happen next year. Just like investing in the stock market, sooner or later you better be getting some actual returns for the emotional and financial cost of being a fan.

Sorry to derail the thread but I don't want to hear the Bob Hartley was a bad guy with poor possession stats and Gully is a good guy, a players coach with great possession stats argument much longer. I want to know WHO is going to get the job done.

[curves2000]

Playoff wins and long-term success: End of ****ing story.

I have heard some of the horror stories about Bob Hartley's time in the organization regarding the treatment of players from a human side of the ledger. A lot of the mental stuff and just being an a** for no other reason than to just be one.

He did though take a team that was rebuilding and with a lot of young players like Bennett, Monahan and Johnny and make the playoffs and win a round AND won a game vs Anaheim.

I am thrilled to death (joking) about Gully and his motivational tactics and good guy attitude and now that he got the team rolling by tossing a stick into the stands.

I am at the stage in life as a long time Flames fan all my life (33 years old) and I have seen enough organizational nightmares with this hockey club that I am putting a level of expectations in this management group and coaching staff sky high. I don't....

1) Care about excuses anymore from anybody. President of Hockey Ops and down
2) Want to hear about another first-round exit "we got swept but it was closer than the series indicated"
3) Special teams play is the key but than have a PP that is so inept it's best being used this season to go to the washroom, grab a drink and than fire off an email or text.

I want long-term high-quality success in the playoffs going forward. Other teams are able to do it, what's our issue? I want to see a brutal and heartbreaking loss in the western conference finals cause I want the feeling that next year were going to make the finals. I want a Stanley Cup and than I want the next year to actually be competitive for another Cup. I want some actual growth in performance WHEN IT MATTERS MOST. Like those Questrade Investment commercials ask "If the long-term performance isn't there, why am I paying these ridiculous fee's? To make you all rich?"

I am DONE with clapping my hands and giving props to the boys in April and HOPING and PRAYING for something good to happen next year. Just like investing in the stock market, sooner or later you better be getting some actual returns for the emotional and financial cost of being a fan.

Sorry to derail the thread but I don't want to hear the Bob Hartley was a bad guy with poor possession stats and Gully is a good guy, a players coach with great possession stats argument much longer. I want to know WHO is going to get the job done.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by habernac

Sutter is about as well loved by a lot of his ex-players. Ask the Kings if they miss him.

Ask the Kings who played for him and won a cup. The answer might be quite different.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Good god. Sarich said he wasn’t playing, had been scratched for several games, so he went golfing, had a couple of beers, nothing crazy, then got the call after the golf that night that he was playing the next day.

Really, all that shows is that Sarich is less than professional and collected a big fat paycheque for doing less than most of us slave for years doing.

I have no sympathy for him, nor do I think that telling stories like this - other than in a totally self-deprecating manner - is of any value.

So he didn't like his boss? So what? For millions a year, he should be ashamed of himself. Forget Hartley.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Ask the Kings who played for him and won a cup. The answer might be quite different.

no, most of them think he is an ####### lol

Doughty and Kopitar are both on record as being happy he is gone...They appreciate the cup, probably want better offensive numbers and more $$$$ moving forward

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Really, all that shows is that Sarich is less than professional and collected a big fat paycheque for doing less than most of us slave for years doing.

I have no sympathy for him, nor do I think that telling stories like this - other than in a totally self-deprecating manner - is of any value.

So he didn't like his boss? So what? For millions a year, he should be ashamed of himself. Forget Hartley.

This thread is weird to me.

The story is that a disgruntled d man on the back 9 of his career didn’t like the coach that scratched him 11 games in a row. Or basically a non story.

Flames were blowing it up, and Hartley was doing his part, and it seems that included some effort driving away the vets.

Somehow, though, people have taken a guy playing a round of golf on an off day and call him unprofessional (?), or say he showed up to work drunk, and who knows what else. It’s a tad on the bizarre side.

[calgarygringo]

Doughty said it loud and clear on national tv a few weeks ago. Didnt pull any punches on it.

Originally Posted by dino7c

no, most of them think he is an ####### lol

Doughty and Kopitar are both on record as being happy he is gone...They appreciate the cup, probably want better offensive numbers and more $$$$ moving forward

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

Doughty said it loud and clear on national tv a few weeks ago. Didnt pull any punches on it.

Sutter made me play defense!

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

no, most of them think he is an ####### lol

Doughty and Kopitar are both on record as being happy he is gone...They appreciate the cup, probably want better offensive numbers and more $$$$ moving forward

Cups, they appreciated the cups plural.

I think Drew is happier now, his new coach will never ask him to play in May or June, so more time for golf and other activities.

[kukkudo]

Doughty should be happy he has two cups because of Sutter. I know it wasn't all Sutter but the Kings are not winning a cup for a long time.

[calgarygringo]

Coaches like Sutter and Hartley work the horses hard and get lots out of them. Problem is you cant keep that going forever especially with todays players. Hitchcock is another good coach but after a couple years nobody cares.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Another coach who was almost universally hated is Scotty Bowman.

Larry Robinson's famous quote:

364 days of the year you hated Scotty Bowman and on the 365th you picked up your Stanley Cup ring.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

Doughty said it loud and clear on national tv a few weeks ago. Didnt pull any punches on it.

Link ? Or quote ?

[PugnaciousIntern]

Sutter was instrumental in the first year that he arrived in LA. His appearance really turned things around.

You could argue a similar thing for Hartley's 14-15 season, although he had been around longer.

What's clear is that their effects wore off after a while

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Another coach who was almost universally hated is Scotty Bowman.

Larry Robinson's famous quote:

364 days of the year you hated Scotty Bowman and on the 365th you picked up your Stanley Cup ring.

Bob Hartley is not Scotty Bowman. It's one thing to be hated and win wherever you go and something different to be hated and only win at only one of your NHL stops and that on a stacked team that probably would have won the cup with any competent head coach.