The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[Itse]

I would say some people are bending over backwards trying to excuse their general dislike of Reys character as some sort of a universal truth about storytelling.

Which it really isn't.

BTW, I also quite like Moores Bond.

[Canehdianman]

Interesting perspectives on here.

I really didn't like TLJ. I found it substantially worse than TFA.

Johnson ignored so many issues that were set up to seem important, and then gave us a 45 minute visit to a casino planet to fill in the gap.

Plus if hyperspacing into Snoke's ship was a plausible strategy, then maybe the first 2 ships that dropped out and got destroyed should have done it? Or they could have simply asked Leia to force fly over to it and plant a bomb on its hull.

I'd give it a 3/10.

[Tinordi]

People understand that Abrams, at best, had loose plans about who Rey's parents were. And even if he didn plan it he decided to scrap it instead and go with Johnson's vision. Johnson's explanation of why Rey was told what she was is very good. Also hints that maybe there's more going on that we're lead to believe.

http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/

In Last Jedi, we get the revelation that Rey is the child of no one of significant value. Can you talk about how you came to that conclusion?

That was like everything else in the movie, something that I came to through a process of breaking the story and figuring it out. The nice thing was I didn’t… I was very thankful there was no slip of paper that was handed to me that said Rey’s parents are so and so. The fact that I had the freedom to figure it out meant that for this story I could figure out the most dramatically potent answer to that question.

But you talked to J.J. [Abrams] about it.


I did yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. He didn’t, no, he didn’t dictate anything to me.

He didn’t have any idea?

Well, I don’t know. He might have had thoughts in his head who it was going to be, but he didn’t dictate them to me. He left it open, you know. First of all, I think I enjoy the notion of disconnecting the idea of tapping into this power in yourself and having it. I like the idea of disconnecting that from lineage. I think that feels “anyone can be President.” I think that’s kind of nice.

But the bigger thing was, if you look at for example, the Vader “I am your Father” moment from Empire [Strikes Back], I think that moment’s so powerful because it’s the hardest possible thing that Luke and the audience could hear at that moment. It takes away the easy answers basically. We thought he was just a bad guy that we could hate and want to kill, but that one sentence and suddenly it’s more complicated than that. It’s harder than that.

If Rey in this movie, if someone had told her yes, here’s the answer. You are so and so’s daughter. Here’s your place in this world. Here you go. That would be the easiest thing she and the audience could hear. It would hand her on a silver platter her place in all this. The hardest thing for all of us to hear and the thing that she doesn’t wanna hear and maybe we don’t either is that no, this is not going to be something where it’s going define you. And the fact that you don’t have this is gonna be used against you by Kylo to try and pull him into your orbit. This is going to be hard. And you’re gonna have to stand on your own two feet and define yourself in this story.

[Fuzz]

Sorry, where is the hint anything more is going? If anything this reinforces why he wanted Rey to be a nobody, and removes some of the ambiguity. Until Abrams re-writes this in episode 9...

[#-3]

People need to relax and enjoy the movie. I just think everything people are complaining about would have made a movie I liked much worse.

Would 15 minutes of exposition about who Snoke was done anything for the story, no.

Would we have been better to find out Obi Wan was Reas Great Uncle. I think it would have had the impact of further shrinking the world while not really making a difference one way or another to the actual plot.

Was the killing of Snoke a wasted character, maybe but much like the death of Edard Stark some times the unexpected end of a large character can drive you deeper into a story. I think the whole scene from Snoke telling him to kill Rea to him assuming leadership of the order made Kylo as a character, you know who Ren is and you believe in him as a character now, 10 fold improvement over him being the absolute weak point in TFA.

The Fin diversion was a little out of step with the movie, but i like that they tried to motivate the resistance, and it was important to building up Poe as a bigger character.

The car chase scene was a little stupid, but it really did given me a feeling of hopelessness on first watch, and i think that was the point.

So Rea picks up on things easily, who cares she's the character she needs to be at the time they need her to be that character, played by a great actress.

So Luke has undergone some personality change in 40 year, wow

Finally in which star wars movie was it exactly where they didn't re-write what jedi powers are and aren't?



of the few things that did bug me, Maz had no reason to be in this movie, It just felt like placating fans who liked her two years ago, i hate when they do stuff like that its the trap franchises fall into. The Liea thing was stupid and could have just been cut, letting her die there. Why in such a state of tech decline, those bombers sucked, the land speeders sucked... Nothing big that would impact the overall fact that it was a good story that i got sucked into.

[KevanGuy]

I think the reason behind this movie's direction is pretty simple. Disney knows all us star wars nerds are going to see it no matter what. In an effort to attract the percentage of the population that doesn't like star wars, they show Luke throwing away his lightsaber while looking at the camera and telling us it's over. Kylo (Ren? never sure how to address him. Ben? Ha ha) has his whole speech about it too.

So, they take the opportunity to pack the movie with stuff they know will work based on a Disney forumla and we get the weird movie we all paid to see.

My fandom took a big hit when he threw that lightsaber over his shoulder. Not only was the old Star Wars being written out, so was the main suspense from the movie that ends seconds before that scene takes place. I couldn't believe it. There was part of me that wanted to say fata this and just walk out.

Then they pad the movie with the totally out of place casino scene and main plot themes beyond suspension of disbelief for a freaking STAR WARS movie and man, what a mess. I'd seen TFA and Rouge One 3 or 4 times in the theatre by now. I'll only go see TLJ again at the cheap theatre, maybe.

I hope it works out for them but they'll be getting less from me, whatever that's worth.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Finally saw the movie so I can join the thread, and man what a letdown. All my complaints have been debated here to death (Space Leia, hyperdrive deus ex machina, stupid casino planet plot, etc) so I won't go into detail, but I had a lot of hope for this movie after TFA provided a good setup. Now I really don't care what they do for the 3rd one, it's obvious Disney is just doing this for the money and have zero regard for the Star Wars universe itself. It's a shame

[CroFlames]

Guys I don't know how to say this so I'm just gonna come out with it.

I watched Ep III twice since TLJ, and I need to argue that Ep III is better. The sins of Ep III are simply not as egregious as TLJ, and the plot is way better too.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'd be more than willing to give it a shot, but I still can't believe that Disney saw what was happening with The Last Jedi and decided that Rian Johnson should helm a new trilogy.

Honestly, a completely new trilogy without the Skywalkers for him to tell his own story is probably exactly what should have happened in the first place, but it's really too bad (in my opinion) that they gave him reign in this trilogy.

Anyways, Hemi-Cuda is just another 4chan fake news account. Sad.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Itse

I would say some people are bending over backwards trying to excuse their general dislike of Reys character as some sort of a universal truth about storytelling.

Which it really isn't.

BTW, I also quite like Moores Bond.

If anything, I think the opposite is going on. People are using a love Rey and Ridley Scott to bend over backwards to justify their love for TLJ, which is a mediocre action movie at best.

I actually really like Rey's character. I also think Daisy Ridley did a great job in her portrayal of Rey. I just think Rey was horribly misused and the writing is lazy and incoherent. My favorites parts of the movie were Ridley Scott's and Adam Driver's performances. The horribly nonsensical and disjointed plot is main the problem.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Guys I don't know how to say this so I'm just gonna come out with it.

I watched Ep III twice since TLJ, and I need to argue that Ep III is better. The sins of Ep III are simply not as egregious as TLJ, and the plot is way better too.

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion at all.

I would definitely place TLJ with Ep 1 and Ep 2 in terms of quality.

Imo from top tier to worst tier:
Rogue One, Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope, The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi, Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace, The Last Jedi

[blankall]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

I think the reason behind this movie's direction is pretty simple. Disney knows all us star wars nerds are going to see it no matter what. In an effort to attract the percentage of the population that doesn't like star wars, they show Luke throwing away his lightsaber while looking at the camera and telling us it's over. Kylo (Ren? never sure how to address him. Ben? Ha ha) has his whole speech about it too.

So, they take the opportunity to pack the movie with stuff they know will work based on a Disney forumla and we get the weird movie we all paid to see.

My fandom took a big hit when he threw that lightsaber over his shoulder. Not only was the old Star Wars being written out, so was the main suspense from the movie that ends seconds before that scene takes place. I couldn't believe it. There was part of me that wanted to say fata this and just walk out.

Then they pad the movie with the totally out of place casino scene and main plot themes beyond suspension of disbelief for a freaking STAR WARS movie and man, what a mess. I'd seen TFA and Rouge One 3 or 4 times in the theatre by now. I'll only go see TLJ again at the cheap theatre, maybe.

I hope it works out for them but they'll be getting less from me, whatever that's worth.

If that's the case, I think it was a huge miscalculation. Star Wars is at the point where the families will come out in droves anyways, unless the movie is insanely dark.

Disney has not only lost goodwill for this movie, but the movies going forward. I'm at the point where I have little excitement for a Star Wars movie every year. I may just skip the Han Solo movie, which is coming out in May and wait until it comes out on a streaming service. It'll take some pretty epic audience scores to pull me back into wanting to see a Star Wars movie every year. I have as much excitement for the Han Solo movie as I do for the average Marvel film (I only see the good ones in theatres now) or Star Trek sequel. Quite frankly, all those big action piece franchises seem blurred together for me. Same pacing, same cinematography, same lens flare, same quips, same CGI, etc... A thin plot filled with Chewie appearances, just isn't going to cause much excitement for me.

This comes from a person who has spent a large part of his life gathering various editions of the original series, building models, buying memorabilia, etc...

[rayne008]

I'm still disappointed in the movie arc and plot points.

It's also alarming that the directors are basically playing a kids game of 'finish the story' with each director adding one line and see what they end up with at the end.

I think it is a mistake not having a clear 3 movie blueprint, allowing for each director's own style, that connects the dots of the overall story.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'd be more than willing to give it a shot, but I still can't believe that Disney saw what was happening with The Last Jedi and decided that Rian Johnson should helm a new trilogy.

I have to think this was largely a film built by committee. It screams paint-by-numbers blockbuster cobbled together by marketing people with focus group results sitting in front of them. It bears no resemblance to Rian Johnson's other movies. Brick is the best movie no one's ever seen. I have a hard time believing he just screwed it up... unless he's phoning it in for a paycheck and just doesn't care.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion at all.

I would definitely place TLJ with Ep 1 and Ep 2 in terms of quality.

Imo from top tier to worst tier:
Rogue One, Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope, The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi, Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace, The Last Jedi

My list and why

The Empire Strikes Back - Largely because this movie did things that were different from a new hope. First of all the dialogue was just simply better. Also in the 3 years between this movie and A New Hope, the effects and camera work had taken a massive leap forward. This movie wasn't the optimistic movie of A New Hope, it ends with the Rebels pounded into the sand, one of the hero's in a block of ice, and the other hero's world shattered.
9/10

A New Hope - The one that started it all. The opening scene melted faces in Cleveland. The effects for 1977 were top notch as was the score. The hero's were every man. The villains (Tarkin in slippers, and Vader) were chilling and intimidating and they had laser swords.
8/10

Rogue One - I really liked this movie, but outside of a couple of characters, they didn't do enough to make you really feel anything as the hero's died one by one. This was a beautifully made film and the battle scenes were awesome to see. Of course the end scene with Vader was epic and we finally saw a Angry Vader showing his power and casually slaughtering non force users.
7.75/10

The Force Awakens - I did like this film even though it was a reboot/retelling of a New Hope. I did like the new hero's in Finn and Rey, not so much in Poe. It was also nice to see the old cast with Carrie and Harrison, but Mark doesn't really count. The effects were good, but they were smart enough to keep the battles at a lower level. On the negative hand there were too many wasted characters that you would hope at the time would be developed more as the next movie came out. I think they missed the mark with Kylo in a way, because he just wasn't as intimidating as Vader and his temper tantrums felt forced.
7.5/10

The Return of the Jedi - The problem with following a movie like Empire is in a way your doomed to fail. There were a lot of great scenes in this movie and the battle scenes for 1983 were great and tense. The John Williams soundtrack was awesome, especially the duel of the fates at the end. the dialogue was back to being a bit stinted and the movie jerked around. The Ewoks were an eye rolling mistake and a blatant attempt at merchandising. This movie also introduced the excellent Ian McDarmid as the Emperor, and he ate the scenery with evil glee, especially the trash talking jerk "Oh . . . I'm sorry, but the shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive".
7/10

Revenge of the Sith - I actually liked a lot about this movie, but its like that video game that's released before its ready. This could have been so much better. Hayden physically is the perfect Anakin, he looks like a Jedi and a Sith and his physicality was excellent, but he really struggled with acting on the dialogue choices. Natalie just wasn't good in any of these movies. But there were excellent acting performances by Ewan, Ian and Samuel L Jackson to balance it off. I loved the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan it was well choreographed as a battle between two men that knew each other intimately (not like that you pervs) and knew what each one was going to do. The opening battle scene was visually shocking. The execution of order 66 was in my mind well done, though additional weight came later when you watched TCW series and got to know these jedi.
6/10

TLJ - I liked a lot about this movie, visually it was stunning, i liked the acting performances by most of the actors, and it was gut wrenching seeing Carrie for possibly the last time. However what kind of hurt this movie is it is clearly an attempt at Disney to reboot and disnefy Star Wars and because of that, it just wasn't that fresh or original of a story. I liked that Luke was a failed Jedi and he knew it. however there were jarring disconnects between TFA and this film that actually made the movie feel like it was a car with a clutch and the driver was inexperienced. There were too many times when you would think "This doesn't make sense". As a science fiction movie its really good, as a Star Wars movie it has some serious flaws.
6/10

The Phantom Menace - This movie had a lot of problems, some unforgivable. From an effects standpoint there were lots of beautifully detailed scenes and the sets were amazing but it was overly reliant on CGI and because of that a lot of the scenes lacked what I would call weight, they looked fake. The idea of making Anakin a really young boy probably made sense on paper but in reality this movie could have been better and his eventual fall more understandable if he was older and the slavery that he and his mother suffered from had been a bit harsher. The performances from Ewan and Liam and Ian were really good. Jar Jar Binks was there for a kid, but because he was a CGI creature I think George fell too much in love with him. The duel with Maul to me was really good and Ray Park was excellent even though they didn't use his voice.
4.5/10

Attack of the Clones - I really, really wanted to like this film, mainly because I fell in love in the prequels with the machinations of the Sith and how they were manipulating the fall of the Jedi. We also got to see a smart concept behind the Clone Wars instead of the actually really stupid Clone Wars description in the Legends EU. There were some strong performances in this movie. Ewan again booted it out of the park, as did Ian. I also really like Christopher Lee as a Sith. The love story didn't work because the dialogue was bad and Hayden and Natalie had no chemistry on screen and it just felt forced and awkward. The fight between Dooku and Obi and Anakin didn't really work that well because they hadn't mastered the CGI application of faces so we were forced to see a lot of closeups between Anakin and Dooku with fancy lights. The Yoda fighting style fell flat. I always envisioned Yoda as a guy who didn't need a light saber and was one of those guys that would overwhelm people with his force abilities (Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself). The mexican jumping bean style just was kind of silly and didn't look at all lethal.
4/10

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Guys I don't know how to say this so I'm just gonna come out with it.

I watched Ep III twice since TLJ, and I need to argue that Ep III is better. The sins of Ep III are simply not as egregious as TLJ, and the plot is way better too.

Even though I swore off the prequels years ago, I actually want to go back and watch them just to see how they stand up to the drivel that was TLJ.

At the very least I can say they probably had a much more solid Star Wars story. Horrendous execution however. I wonder if I'd be able to sit through them today.

[Fuzz]

There is a pretty good fan edit of the prequels that tells the story of Anakin without all the superfluous crap. It does a much better job of telling the rise and fall of Anakin and is worth a view.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Even though I swore off the prequels years ago, I actually want to go back and watch them just to see how they stand up to the drivel that was TLJ.

At the very least I can say they probably had a much more solid Star Wars story. Horrendous execution however. I wonder if I'd be able to sit through them today.

Episode 3 would have been great, but Lucas felt the need to constantly give characters monologues on various balconies. I'm not sure why he did that. It really felt like Lucas brought in Wiseau as a consultant on the dialogue at points.

[Matata]

Recently rewatched ANH and Empire over xmas break and the older I get the more I prefer ANH. Empire benefits from being a far more polished movie with a much higher budget, but ANH has this raw, manic, experimental energy that Empire lacks. ANH opens with 15 minutes of a man in a painfully obvious black body suit play a gay robot who bitches about everything and it's amazing. The movie itself feels like it could fall apart at enough moment, but instead it builds into one of the greatest plot and character arcs in film history and went on to redefine cinema as a whole. In a vacuum I'd still have to call Empire the better movie, but within the context of it's affect on culture and what a mad-cap movie it was to actually make, I have to go with ANH.

[direwolf]

Episode III was on TV right before Christmas, and I ended up watching it for the first time since I saw it in the theatre. I own all the blurays, but I've never watched them as I like to pretend that the prequels don't exist.

My verdict: it's still a terrible film. Not quite as bad as I or II, but it's still a cringe-inducing piece of crap with awful dialogue and bad acting (mostly courtesy of Hayden Christensen). Not to mention Lucas' over-reliance on CGI makes the film look way too cartoon-ish, and it really doesn't hold up very well. Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman are both very good actors, and they do what they can with the dialogue. But in the end you just feel sorry for them. Personally I think TLJ is a far superior film in every way.