[Rumour] Incoming Flames shake up

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I could see something around Lazar for Anthony Duclair, with F.Hamilton and Stajan being sent down for call-ups.

However, the biggest shake-up by far needs to happen behind the bench before dismantling things. I really want to see how this roster does with some different people calling the shots.

Yeah, not sure what this system is. Maybe ‘win at all costs boring hockey?’

But seriously they are good 5 on 5. It’s the special teams, particularly at home, that have cost them points this year.

They can afford a fourth line shakeup. And kids on the farm have earned call ups. So I’d be ok with that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The original post was just stating that even if the pick turned into a top 3 for the Islanders there is no guarantee it would have for the Flames. Most fans seem to either be fine with the trade or taking a wait and see approach. Then there are a few others who love to judge the trade in hindsight after less than half of a season.

I think a few fans saw it as an overpayment at the time as well. It seems a little unfair to only criticize those fans that don’t like it. As you say, still time for this to work out. Right now, Snow is doing cartwheels.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think a few fans saw it as an overpayment at the time as well. It seems a little unfair to only criticize those fans that don’t like it. As you say, still time for this to work out. Right now, Snow is doing cartwheels.

Really?

The Islanders are a bubble playoff team trying to re-sign their franchise forward that has allowed the most goals in the eastern conference (139). The only team in the NHL who's allowed more goals is the Coyotes.

I'd say he's a ways away from getting up out of his seat to spin handstands.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

For those that are still mad about the first round being traded for Hamonic, sometimes we forget that Treliving didn't pay a 1st rounder for a rental. He traded for a player that is on a bargain of a contract, with 2 years left on it after this season. Not only that, but he's an excellent person off the ice. And he seems to love it here, so I have a good feeling that he will re-sign here.

Sure, it sucks that in hindsight we are thinking of the upcoming draft and how we do not even have a pick in the top 62. But I am happy that we got him for a playoff push not only this season but for future ones. Hamonic is the least of our worries.

Weird texture to that post. One could argue it reads like the Flames supporters are desperate to be affirmed as a worthy destination (good feeling he will re-sign) by a player around whom the current conversations are about him being a disappointment.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Weird texture to that post. One could argue it reads like the Flames supporters are desperate to be affirmed as a worthy destination (good feeling he will re-sign) by a player around whom the current conversations are about him being a disappointment.

I think Hamonic has come into his own the last 15 games and with a D partner in Brodie who is clearly struggling. Remember when people were tired of Hamilton in the first 30 or so games last year and Johnny G too for that matter?? Patience is a hard commodity to sell especially for hockey fans and admittedly even mine has run short with this coaching staff but guys like Hamonic and his discount contract are the least of this teams problems.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think Hamonic has come into his own the last 15 games and with a D partner in Brodie who is clearly struggling. Remember when people were tired of Hamilton in the first 30 or so games last year and Johnny G too for that matter?? Patience is a hard commodity to sell especially for hockey fans and admittedly even mine has run short with this coaching staff but guys like Hamonic and his discount contract are the least of this teams problems.

Well put. I don't disagree, though my concern is that with the 2nd pairing clearly struggling, despite a few half decent games of late, why not try a different mixing up the pairings a bit.

It's similar to the special team issues... Why wait till 20,30,40 games go by before trying something new. Patience is definitely important but there has to be a balance with the concept of 'failing fast'.

[Royle9]

Part of me is hoping we haven't seen the "shake up" yet due to Burke's "holiday trade freeze" over the break. Now that it has ended I'm hoping we see some bigger deals/moves take place over the next few days.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think Hamonic has come into his own the last 15 games and with a D partner in Brodie who is clearly struggling. Remember when people were tired of Hamilton in the first 30 or so games last year and Johnny G too for that matter?? Patience is a hard commodity to sell especially for hockey fans and admittedly even mine has run short with this coaching staff but guys like Hamonic and his discount contract are the least of this teams problems.

Hamonic has been okay. Now that he's settled in he looks like a decent 4th defenseman. My issue is what the team gave up to get a guy that is not a difference maker in any sense. The fact that the GM overpaid for him isn't Hamonic's fault of course but this trade has shaken my confidence in the GM as you just don't give up a king's ransom in a 1st and two 2nd round picks for a serviceable 2nd pairing defenseman. I'm not sure if Treliving overestimated how close this roster under his coach to competing for a Stanley Cup but it really does look bad regardless of Hamonic playing at an okay level. This team has to be in the mix for home ice in the playoffs for this trade to look like a good gamble. Anything less and it has to go down in one of the worst in the history of this franchise.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada;6518456.

Anything less and it has to go down in one of the worst in the history of this franchise.

That's a little over dramatic. There were PLENTY of worse trades in the history of this franchise.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hamonic has been okay. Now that he's settled in he looks like a decent 4th defenseman. My issue is what the team gave up to get a guy that is not a difference maker in any sense. The fact that the GM overpaid for him isn't Hamonic's fault of course but this trade has shaken my confidence in the GM as you just don't give up a king's ransom in a 1st and two 2nd round picks for a serviceable 2nd pairing defenseman. I'm not sure if Treliving overestimated how close this roster under his coach to competing for a Stanley Cup but it really does look bad regardless of Hamonic playing at an okay level. This team has to be in the mix for home ice in the playoffs for this trade to look like a good gamble. Anything less and it has to go down in one of the worst in the history of this franchise.

I truly think the Nashville run had a big impact on the Flames desire to add another big piece on the back end. Hamonic checked nearly every box as wel for a potential target. He was about to turn 27 years old, big body, decent skater, right shot, had 3 years term on an extremely team friendly deal for a top 4 D, great person/community guy, and lastly he truly wanted to come to Western Canada.

The Flames knew they were not going to be able to match firepower with the top teams in the league but were potentially one really solid blueliner away from having arguably the best D corps in the league.

I understand why the love was made and the price wasn’t bad if the Flames were going to co tend for the division. If the pick is 21-31 then it is a solid deal. If it is 1-10 then it is likely a disaster.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I truly think the Nashville run had a big impact on the Flames desire to add another big piece on the back end. Hamonic checked nearly every box as wel for a potential target. He was about to turn 27 years old, big body, decent skater, right shot, had 3 years term on an extremely team friendly deal for a top 4 D, great person/community guy, and lastly he truly wanted to come to Western Canada.

The Flames knew they were not going to be able to match firepower with the top teams in the league but were potentially one really solid blueliner away from having arguably the best D corps in the league.

I understand why the love was made and the price wasn’t bad if the Flames were going to co tend for the division. If the pick is 21-31 then it is a solid deal. If it is 1-10 then it is likely a disaster.

I agree with this. The only problem is that we are not using our defence the way Nashville does.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

That's a little over dramatic. There were PLENTY of worse trades in the history of this franchise.

Can you name them? I realize the Phaneuf and Gilmour trades will always be regarded as the worst and the Marc Savard trade was stupid but what other trade have the Flames ever given up so much futures? I don't think it's over dramatic at all.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Can you name them? I realize the Phaneuf and Gilmour trades will always be regarded as the worst but what other trade have the Flames ever given up so much futures. I don't think it's over dramatic at all.

Savard. Jokinen/Proust for Kotalik/Higgins. Mullen for a second (Nick Perrault). The crap returns for Iginla, Reg, Jaybo.

Trading prospects for immediate role players - Hull for Ramage and Walmsley. The cup win though, probably impossible without Ramage stepping in when Suter went down.

[Braden]

Not directly related to this but on the topic of trades (dion phaneuf) this was the first time I've seen sportsnet mention and link a calgary puck thread. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/g...nceman-traded/

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Savard. Jokinen/Proust for Kotalik/Higgins. Mullen for a second (Nick Perrault). The crap returns for Iginla, Reg, Jaybo.

Trading prospects for immediate role players - Hull for Ramage and Walmsley. The cup win though, probably impossible without Ramage stepping in when Suter went down.

Hull for Ramage may have been the tipping point to winning the cup so any GM will take that. The Kotalik trade was bad but I'm talking worst ever. The returns for Bowmeester and Iginla would have looked a lot better had the Flames not missed on the draft picks and the issue and the Iginla trade was handicapped by the player only wanting to go to one destination. Again we are talking worst ever here. One 1st round pick (currently a lottery pick) and two 2nd round picks for a serviceable defenseman is not a prudent use of assets IMO. Hamonic was available for a long time because it's obvious teams were balking at that price especially after Hamonic struggled last season. I understand the trade but when you sign off on that you better ensure your team is a contender and that's what makes this trade look bad at present time. Now they still have two years left on Hamonic's deal where they could achieve something but to date this trade is not looking great and if the team doesn't do anything remarkable over the three seasons there's no doubt it will be discussed as the worst in the history of the franchise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hull for Ramage may have been the tipping point to winning the cup so any GM will take that. The Kotalik trade was bad but I'm talking worst ever. The returns for Bowmeester and Iginla would have looked a lot better had the Flames not missed on the draft picks and the issue and the Iginla trade was handicapped by the player only wanting to go to one destination. Again we are talking worst ever here. One 1st round pick (currently a lottery pick) and two 2nd round picks for a serviceable defenseman is not a prudent use of assets IMO. Hamonic was available for a long time because it's obvious teams were balking at that price especially after Hamonic struggled last season. I understand the trade but when you sign off on that you better ensure your team is a contender and that's what makes this trade look bad at present time. Now they still have two years left on Hamonic's deal where they could achieve something but to date this trade is not looking great and if the team doesn't do anything remarkable over the three seasons there's no doubt it will be discussed as the worst in the history of the franchise.

It won't even be close to the worst trade even if it doesn't pan out. Or even fourth worst.

"Currently a lottery pick" is a bit of a hyperbole. That doesn't mean what it used to.

I think he is a good number four, and that's in a down year for him. That's fair value for a mid first round and 2 seconds, if you look at the odds of those picks being any kind of impact players.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The best comparison for the Hamonic deal is what the Flames gave up for Jokinen.

2009-Mar-04 Traded from Phoenix Coyotes with round 3 pick in the 2009 draft (Josh Birkholz) to Calgary Flames for Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust and round 1 pick in the 2010 draft

This is the best comparable deal in terms of adding what was perceived to be a core piece.

The Flames had the right to defer the pick one year - which they did to draft Tom. The Coyotes then got Gormley with the pick the following year, which everyone freaked about as Gormley was highly thought of.

Which just goes to show how much time this one will take to really evaluate.

[corporatejay]

Draft picks could be anything, they could even be Hamonic, 8 years from now.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It won't even be close to the worst trade even if it doesn't pan out. Or even fourth worst.

"Currently a lottery pick" is a bit of a hyperbole. That doesn't mean what it used to.

I think he is a good number four, and that's in a down year for him. That's fair value for a mid first round and 2 seconds, if you look at the odds of those picks being any kind of impact players.

If you made the same trade every year and all you got back was a decent #4 defenseman, you’d have the worst team in the league. You can’t just look at the odds of what those picks could be IMO. Not to say the trade can’t work out, but it’s not as simple as that. Those picks have great value in different ways.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If you made the same trade every year and all you got back was a decent #4 defenseman, you’d have the worst team in the league. You can’t just look at the odds of what those picks could be IMO. Not to say the trade can’t work out, but it’s not as simple as that. Those picks have great value in different ways.

Good thing no one is doing that.