Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[albertGQ]

Is it true that the first rounder we traded for Hamonic is not lotter protected at all?

You'd think BT would have put some protection on that pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Not sure if this has been mentioned.

I see a lot of people mentioning Treliving potentially taking blame or heat for trading picks, meaning that he thought we were a contender and he shouldn't have traded them if we weren't.

But who says that has to payoff right now? Is our roster going to be vastly different next year? Maybe trading the picks was done because the move could payoff over several seasons, not just this year, and he knew that if he waited that the opportunity to improve our team would be gone. It's not like he could guarantee that the same, or even similar, players with similar contracts would be available at the price he wanted to pay when we are contenders.

Had he been trading for pending UFAs and late season rentals like Sutter always did and we still failed then I get it.

Hopefully worst case scenario is he traded a pick outside the top 10 and he knew there was a chance that he wasn't trading the 25th overall pick but thought that the trades still made sense because they could payoff over multiple seasons, even if we didn't contend this year.

Firstly. the lottery odds mean that any team that misses the playoffs has a chance of picking top 3. Last year the Flyers were 19th in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. The Stars were 24th in the NHL, and won 3rd overall. The season prior, the Jets were 23rd in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. Treliving's Hamonic trade has no contingency in place for this.

And even outside of that, the quality of player available in the 17th to 22nd-ish place zone should not be ignored. We lost our chance to draft Vladimir Tarasenko making a bad trade of this sort many years ago. We lost our chance to draft Brock Boeser, Matthew Barzal, or Kyle Connor when we traded our 15th overall pick for Dougie Hamilton.

In fact, not including the above four players, here are some players picked in past 10th in the first round of the last decade of drafts:

Erik Karlsson
Jordan Eberle
Jake Gardiner
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Chris Kreider
Cam Fowler
Jaden Shwartz
Oscar Klefbom
Kevin Hayes
Andrei Vasilveskiy
Filip Forsberg
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Radek Faksa
Alexander Wennberg
Anthony Mantha
Dylan Larkin
David Pastrnak
Josh Ho-Sang
Charlie McAvoy

Not only do we not know where we would have drafted, we don't know who we could have drafted. Not knowing this, it was irresponsible to trade that pick for Travis Hamonic, who at best is a #4 defenseman and really has barely even played like one in a couple years.

As it stands, we have no draft pick in the first round. All for a trade that was questionable the day it was made.

I'm personally fed up with this organization botching first round after first round of the draft and expecting to go far.

This is a team sitting 19th in points percentage that has no first round draft pick. That is simple unacceptable and no one should get out Scott Free. Last time this happened, one Sutter lost a job but we had to suffer through three more years of the worse Sutter. You gotta clean house fully. Especially when you have pieces like TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, and Johnny Gaudreau all of whom have shown elite potential and it's being pissed away at both an individual and team level. Brodie should be a top 10 defenseman in the league, where he's currently not looking like a top 10 defenseman in the Pacific. Johnny should be dangerous on a nightly basis, but he pretty much has been hot-and-cold since Gulutzan took over. Bennett should be a top two line center given opportunity to overwhelmingly succeed, instead he's our 3rd line left wing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Well I expected more out of the team this season as well. But it seems to me a lot of people are acting like this has nothing to do with the play of our players and everything to do with the coaching. Like the system has our players stifled to the point of making them bad players. When we win its the players overcoming GG or something.

Seems ridiculous to me.

First of all, no one has said it is 100% coaching and 0% on the players. Why do people have to be so black and white about things?

And second, even if it is ALL on the players, you still need to fire the coach because he isn't getting the players to play to their abilities.

If the team isn't playing up to their abilities, it is at least partially the responsibility of the coach - that is literally his job. He could be the greatest coach of all time, but if he isn't getting enough out of the team, a change is needed (unless you think it will turn around). And for me, in year two of his tenure, that ship has sailed.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think the team is being overrated, nor do I dislike the systems.

I just think it's tough to win in the NHL. The Flames have a well built team but nobody was calling for a cup or suggesting they were a top two or three team in the NHL. Coming in I saw them as roughly 10th give or take. Their star players are young and with youth you need to learn consistency, you need to learn how to prepare yourself and you need to learn how to win by losing. It takes time.

I like the systems and how the team is out playing other teams more often than not (top five team in scoring chance differential).

They may get it, they may not ... I'm on the they will side still to be honest but youth takes time and the team is relying on very young players to carry the mail.

Firing the coach is pointless in my mind

I agree with all this, but I still feel like this team is stagnating. This may not be the right coach with the right message for this group at this particular point in their development. Maybe it's not the worst idea to change it up in the hopes of getting this team to the next stage. Who knows, maybe they would regress under another coach.


All I know is that they are horribly inconsistent, and it's not just about young players carrying the team consistently. The only player who shows up each and every night seems to be Giordano.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I voted NO because there's no candidate who can magically rid this team of their biggest problems which is generally individual player mistakes. The coach doesn't ask the players to turn pucks over, he doesn't tell them to miss wide open nets, he doesn't tell them to take boneheaded penalties, he doesn't tell the 4th line to be completely useless out there. There is no pill that this team can swallow to make them an instant juggernaut to satisfy everyone's expectations.

Can someone explain to me why expectations were so high for this team anyway. What exactly did we do to take ourselves from a team that missed the playoffs in 2016 and then barely made the playoffs in 2017 to an expected cup contender this season? Like, did adding Travis Hamonic who might be a slight upgrade over Derek Engelland somehow put us over the top or something? Sure the goaltending has improved, but Smith has looked human for the last month +. We still have the exact same forward group and this inconsistent team that we had last season is not surprisingly playing inconsistent again. That shouldn't be a shocker. It's a young team and young players are inconsistent. Just look at the wild swing of Sam Bennett's season so far up to date.

I still have not seen anything anyone has written that justifies firing a coach mid-playoff push that will guarantee anything. It's like people have convinced themselves that picking up Darryl Sutter or whoever will just solve all the team's problems and we'll go on a tear. It could just as easily crash and burn this season to the ground. I mean, just look at how well Sutter's old team is doing with out him behind the bench this season as a possible scenario.

The biggest problems you point out can be pointed right back at coaching. When your systems (breakout, PP, set up, etc) are so mickey mouse that other teams know where it is going, it is going to lead to a lot of turnovers.

Expectations were high because Hamonic is much more than a slight upgrade on Engelland as proven throughout their respective careers. There are a number of guys on this team not playing even close to their proven potential under other systems.

There is no way you are comparing this team with the team that missed the playoffs and are not seeing a difference... you said yourself that young players are inconsistent so those young guys are all 2 years older not to mention some key additions. It is a much stronger team than what we had 2 years ago.

A more interesting poll would be "if X, Y, Z were available" (insert top 3 potentially available coaches), should the flames fire GG? I have to assume over 90% of people vote yes. GG has nothing to show over an extended sample size with a roster that was a lock for the playoffs per sports insiders and Vegas. In a way, I feel for him because if Cameron could contribute with a proper PP, we are most likely sitting comfortably on the inside.

I believe Cameron should have been gone over the break and perhaps you give GG the ropes to years end and see if he can turn things around. If so, he earns another year but if nothing changes then you enter next year with a new staff.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First of all, no one has said it is 100% coaching and 0% on the players. Why do people have to be so black and white about things?

And second, even if it is ALL on the players, you still need to fire the coach because he isn't getting the players to play to their abilities.

If the team isn't playing up to their abilities, it is at least partially the responsibility of the coach - that is literally his job. He could be the greatest coach of all time, but if he isn't getting enough out of the team, a change is needed (unless you think it will turn around). And for me, in year two of his tenure, that ship has sailed.

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I agree with all this, but I still feel like this team is stagnating. This may not be the right coach with the right message for this group at this particular point in their development. Maybe it's not the worst idea to change it up in the hopes of getting this team to the next stage. Who knows, maybe they would regress under another coach.


All I know is that they are horribly inconsistent, and it's not just about young players carrying the team consistently. The only player who shows up each and every night seems to be Giordano.

Its not as though he hasnt had time. We're at nearly 2 years of te reign of Gulutzan and if we saw light at the end of the tunnel then that would be one thing, but at the moment we've seen 18 months of a complete crapshoot as to which team is going to show up.

Sometimes they're great, prepared and ready to go and execute, and then some days its like they just found out theres a game on 15 minutes ago.

The fact of the matter is that this team, despite significant roster improvements, is no better now and I think we can all see the common denominator.

[Phil Russell]

I voted no.

A young team needs time, and if the Flames management has shown anything this year it is that they have a lot more patience than the fans. They will give the team a lot of time to sort things out before making any big moves. Management is slow moving. But most of their slow moving ways regarding player development have worked out well and I think they will do the same with the systems and with the coach. It is frustrating to watch as a fan but ultimately I think that the strategy is wise.

I am also not panicked about the draft picks or think that this must be the year for a deep playoff push or all has been lost. Hamonic was a good gamble and is still settling in. I could still see him being a very important player for many years to come. I also think it is likely that at least the second rounder will be recouped via trade before the draft. The Flames have a lot of very good assets on the farm that there will not be room for and those will be moved for picks.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Firstly. the lottery odds mean that any team that misses the playoffs has a chance of picking top 3. Last year the Flyers were 19th in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. The Stars were 24th in the NHL, and won 3rd overall. The season prior, the Jets were 23rd in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. Treliving's Hamonic trade has no contingency in place for this.

And even outside of that, the quality of player available in the 17th to 22nd-ish place zone should not be ignored. We lost our chance to draft Vladimir Tarasenko making a bad trade of this sort many years ago. We lost our chance to draft Brock Boeser, Matthew Barzal, or Kyle Connor when we traded our 15th overall pick for Dougie Hamilton.

In fact, not including the above four players, here are some players picked in past 10th in the first round of the last decade of drafts:

Erik Karlsson
Jordan Eberle
Jake Gardiner
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Chris Kreider
Cam Fowler
Jaden Shwartz
Oscar Klefbom
Kevin Hayes
Andrei Vasilveskiy
Filip Forsberg
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Radek Faksa
Alexander Wennberg
Anthony Mantha
Dylan Larkin
David Pastrnak
Josh Ho-Sang
Charlie McAvoy

Not only do we not know where we would have drafted, we don't know who we could have drafted. Not knowing this, it was irresponsible to trade that pick for Travis Hamonic, who at best is a #4 defenseman and really has barely even played like one in a couple years.

As it stands, we have no draft pick in the first round. All for a trade that was questionable the day it was made.

I'm personally fed up with this organization botching first round after first round of the draft and expecting to go far.

This is a team sitting 19th in points percentage that has no first round draft pick. That is simple unacceptable and no one should get out Scott Free. Last time this happened, one Sutter lost a job but we had to suffer through three more years of the worse Sutter. You gotta clean house fully. Especially when you have pieces like TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, and Johnny Gaudreau all of whom have shown elite potential and it's being pissed away at both an individual and team level. Brodie should be a top 10 defenseman in the league, where he's currently not looking like a top 10 defenseman in the Pacific. Johnny should be dangerous on a nightly basis, but he pretty much has been hot-and-cold since Gulutzan took over. Bennett should be a top two line center given opportunity to overwhelmingly succeed, instead he's our 3rd line left wing.

On the Hamilton trade is it a given that they would of picked anyone of those players?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

On the Hamilton trade is it a given that they would of picked anyone of those players?

Well, Tod's brother Craig had Boeser top 6 on his rankings. Barzal was always a top prospect who slipped surprisingly. And Connor was well-scouted by the Flames; in fact that's what caused them to end up signing Ryan Lomberg.

It's besides the point though. You have a chance of acquiring a great prospect if you hang onto your picks. You have zero chance of it if your picks are in another team's hands. Playing the "we might not have taken that player" card is missing the point - because we definitely didn't pick that player if we definitely didn't have the pick.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Not only do we not know where we would have drafted, we don't know who we could have drafted. Not knowing this, it was irresponsible to trade that pick for Travis Hamonic, who at best is a #4 defenseman and really has barely even played like one in a couple years.

As it stands, we have no draft pick in the first round. All for a trade that was questionable the day it was made.

I'm personally fed up with this organization botching first round after first round of the draft and expecting to go far.

Kinda lost me with that bolded part. Arguably the organization's first round draft picks have been top notch in the last 8 years or so. You have to go back to 2009 for a complete dud.

The team is young and I wish Gulutzan was getting more out of it. With the roster we have, we deserve better hockey. And given what is developing at the farm, I think the hamonic trade for picks was a worthwhile gamble by Tre.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, Tod's brother Craig had Boeser top 6 on his rankings. Barzal was always a top prospect who slipped surprisingly. And Connor was well-scouted by the Flames; in fact that's what caused them to end up signing Ryan Lomberg.

It's besides the point though. You have a chance of acquiring a great prospect if you hang onto your picks. You have zero chance of it if your picks are in another team's hands. Playing the "we might not have taken that player" card is missing the point - because we definitely didn't pick that player if we definitely didn't have the pick.

It is not like Hamilton is chopped liver, I mean if You had three draft picks and one of them turned into a player the caliber of Hamilton wouldn’t that be a win? Sometimes a boat is better then a chance to win a boat(even three chances to win said boat)

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Firstly. the lottery odds mean that any team that misses the playoffs has a chance of picking top 3.

Yeah I know, that’s what we’re discussing.

Last year the Flyers were 19th in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. The Stars were 24th in the NHL, and won 3rd overall. The season prior, the Jets were 23rd in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. Treliving's Hamonic trade has no contingency in place for this.

I highly doubt we finish as bad as Dallas or Winnipeg and I already addressed the highly unlikely Philly situation.

And even outside of that, the quality of player available in the 17th to 22nd-ish place zone should not be ignored. We lost our chance to draft Vladimir Tarasenko making a bad trade of this sort many years ago. We lost our chance to draft Brock Boeser, Matthew Barzal, or Kyle Connor when we traded our 15th overall pick for Dougie Hamilton.

In fact, not including the above four players, here are some players picked in past 10th in the first round of the last decade of drafts:

Erik Karlsson
Jordan Eberle
Jake Gardiner
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Chris Kreider
Cam Fowler
Jaden Shwartz
Oscar Klefbom
Kevin Hayes
Andrei Vasilveskiy
Filip Forsberg
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Radek Faksa
Alexander Wennberg
Anthony Mantha
Dylan Larkin
David Pastrnak
Josh Ho-Sang
Charlie McAvoy

Not only do we not know where we would have drafted, we don't know who we could have drafted. Not knowing this, it was irresponsible to trade that pick for Travis Hamonic, who at best is a #4 defenseman and really has barely even played like one in a couple years.

You picked 20 guys out of 200. So a 10% chance we get a guy better than Hamonic? And even then one who doesn’t likely produce for 2-3 years. And no guarantee the player available fills a gap like Hamonic did.

As it stands, we have no draft pick in the first round. All for a trade that was questionable the day it was made.

All trades for picks are questionable if the player chosen turns out to be better than the player traded for. Tre saw a need and an opportunity and filled it.

I'm personally fed up with this organization botching first round after first round of the draft and expecting to go far.

This is a team sitting 19th in points percentage that has no first round draft pick. That is simple unacceptable and no one should get out Scott Free. Last time this happened, one Sutter lost a job but we had to suffer through three more years of the worse Sutter. You gotta clean house fully. Especially when you have pieces like TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, and Johnny Gaudreau all of whom have shown elite potential and it's being pissed away at both an individual and team level. Brodie should be a top 10 defenseman in the league, where he's currently not looking like a top 10 defenseman in the Pacific. Johnny should be dangerous on a nightly basis, but he pretty much has been hot-and-cold since Gulutzan took over. Bennett should be a top two line center given opportunity to overwhelmingly succeed, instead he's our 3rd line left wing.

Our recent draft history is terrible? Johnny’s potential is being pissed away? Brodie has struggled but it can hardly be blamed solely on GG and Sam Bennett potential being pissed away? The same Bennett that has been on a tear for a month?

These are all questionable at best.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Firstly. the lottery odds mean that any team that misses the playoffs has a chance of picking top 3. Last year the Flyers were 19th in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. The Stars were 24th in the NHL, and won 3rd overall. The season prior, the Jets were 23rd in the NHL, and won 2nd overall. Treliving's Hamonic trade has no contingency in place for this.

And even outside of that, the quality of player available in the 17th to 22nd-ish place zone should not be ignored. We lost our chance to draft Vladimir Tarasenko making a bad trade of this sort many years ago. We lost our chance to draft Brock Boeser, Matthew Barzal, or Kyle Connor when we traded our 15th overall pick for Dougie Hamilton.

In fact, not including the above four players, here are some players picked in past 10th in the first round of the last decade of drafts:

Erik Karlsson
Jordan Eberle
Jake Gardiner
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Chris Kreider
Cam Fowler
Jaden Shwartz
Oscar Klefbom
Kevin Hayes
Andrei Vasilveskiy
Filip Forsberg
Tomas Hertl
Teuvo Teravainen
Radek Faksa
Alexander Wennberg
Anthony Mantha
Dylan Larkin
David Pastrnak
Josh Ho-Sang
Charlie McAvoy

Not only do we not know where we would have drafted, we don't know who we could have drafted. Not knowing this, it was irresponsible to trade that pick for Travis Hamonic, who at best is a #4 defenseman and really has barely even played like one in a couple years.

As it stands, we have no draft pick in the first round. All for a trade that was questionable the day it was made.

I'm personally fed up with this organization botching first round after first round of the draft and expecting to go far.

This is a team sitting 19th in points percentage that has no first round draft pick. That is simple unacceptable and no one should get out Scott Free. Last time this happened, one Sutter lost a job but we had to suffer through three more years of the worse Sutter. You gotta clean house fully. Especially when you have pieces like TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, and Johnny Gaudreau all of whom have shown elite potential and it's being pissed away at both an individual and team level. Brodie should be a top 10 defenseman in the league, where he's currently not looking like a top 10 defenseman in the Pacific. Johnny should be dangerous on a nightly basis, but he pretty much has been hot-and-cold since Gulutzan took over. Bennett should be a top two line center given opportunity to overwhelmingly succeed, instead he's our 3rd line left wing.

I can give you a list 100x longer of players worse than Hamilton or Hamonic that have been drafted in the bottom half of the first round. Its easy to pick out players with hindsight...and even some of the ones on your list don't have the value of either D man.

Obviously if its a high pick its a disaster but Flames still hold those two players who are both very much high end assets...its not like they just gave the picks away for rentals.

[Kybb79]

Nm

[Major Major]

Frankly, I don't think most GM's in the league look at the game from the same frantic and panicked eyes as some fans do. To me, I imagine the evaluation to be like this:
Are we where we expected to be at this point? No
Are we close? Yes
Are they playing well on most nights? Yes
Would the players benefit from being left to work through this with the current coach, knowing that both the team and coach are capable of getting a lot of points quickly? Yes

Conversely...

There are three possible results with a new coach:
1. The players don't respond to new motivation and systems... Disaster
2. Players respond in the short term, but the galvanising effect soon wears off and they're left to fight for their playoff lives.
3. Team solidifies and play consistently well under the new coach. Everyone lives happily ever after.


What do you think is most likely? Personally, I see less risk with the same likelihood of gain with glen. I think there's hidden benefit in having the team working through this and believing in each other. If they bring in a new coach with a new system, what does that say to the players about what they have been trying to accomplish the last 18 months?

And I know that no one is going to raise their hand on this one, but I am quite certain that a lot of the people who are wishing we had ourselves a Girard gallant would have been the same ones starting the fire gallant polls 1 year ago had they been panther fans.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Major Major

If they bring in a new coach with a new system, what does that say to the players about what they have been trying to accomplish the last 18 months?

At minimum- No time off. 18 months is too long to grasp that, if the system is right.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Frankly, I don't think most GM's in the league look at the game from the same frantic and panicked eyes as some fans do. To me, I imagine the evaluation to be like this:
Are we where we expected to be at this point? No
Are we close? Yes
Are they playing well on most nights? Yes
Would the players benefit from being left to work through this with the current coach, knowing that both the team and coach are capable of getting a lot of points quickly? Yes

Conversely...

There are three possible results with a new coach:
1. The players don't respond to new motivation and systems... Disaster
2. Players respond in the short term, but the galvanising effect soon wears off and they're left to fight for their playoff lives.
3. Team solidifies and play consistently well under the new coach. Everyone lives happily ever after.


What do you think is most likely? Personally, I see less risk with the same likelihood of gain with glen. I think there's hidden benefit in having the team working through this and believing in each other. If they bring in a new coach with a new system, what does that say to the players about what they have been trying to accomplish the last 18 months?

And I know that no one is going to raise their hand on this one, but I am quite certain that a lot of the people who are wishing we had ourselves a Girard gallant would have been the same ones starting the fire gallant polls 1 year ago had they been panther fans.

Good post.

Personally, I think we're already neck deep in scenario #2, but it could still be #3. I'm just not sure I have enough patience to find out at this point.

As for the Gallant poll you mentioned: He was nominated for the Jack Adams the year prior to last season's disaster in Florida. He had a lot of roster turnover, and was being asked to coach a different style of game by some number crunching AGMs that are also the guys that brought in all the "possession metric" players. Gallant's team was underperforming, but it was largely because of a massive change in chemistry, some players like Reilly Smith and Jussi Jokinen having bad starts to that year, and key injuries to Huberdeau and Barkov early on. All of that information in context, the fans were more than patient with the early struggles in that year, but the owner figured that they were cup contenders and Gallant was the problem (with a word in his ear from those meddling AGMs). Tallon was a figurehead President at this point, and Tom Rowe was made GM to give the owner more direct control over the team. Remember, Tom Rowe was a yes man, and did little critical thinking of his own, and so if the owner wanted Gallant fired, Rowe did it without any push back. Following Gallant's firing, the team continued to struggle, and actually regressed significantly in the defensive zone under interim coach Rowe. It was an absolute disaster of a season that was instigated by some horrible decision in upper management structure, and it came from the owner.

On the other side of the coin, I think the owners have stayed pretty far from the day to day affairs of the team, Burke isn't meddling a whole lot, and Treliving has shown an incredible amount of patience with Gulutzan and the players. The fans have been extremely impatient, which is normal for Canadian fans, but it's been particularly bad to start this year. However, even those who have plenty of patience, like myself, have realized that this isn't going the way it should be and changes might be necessary.

I will use this next 10 game segment to make a final judgment on Glen. Anything less than 6 wins in the next 10 games and Glen should probably pack his bags.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Coaches in the NHL seem to have an immediate impact or not much of one at all. There’s a reason why their tenures tend to be so short.

I'd never thought of that before, but it certainly seems to be true. Can anyone name an NHL coach that had his biggest impact in his third of fourth season with a team?

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think the team is being overrated, nor do I dislike the systems.

I just think it's tough to win in the NHL. The Flames have a well built team but nobody was calling for a cup or suggesting they were a top two or three team in the NHL. Coming in I saw them as roughly 10th give or take. Their star players are young and with youth you need to learn consistency, you need to learn how to prepare yourself and you need to learn how to win by losing. It takes time.

Yes, it takes time for a young team to develop. But Treliving sure hasn't been acting like the GM of a young, developing team lately. Do the managers of young, developing teams who aren't yet established playoff teams trade away 3 x 3rds, 4 x 2nds, and a 1st round pick in the space of 18 months? Those are the moves of an established playoff team desperate to make the push to contender, not a young, mediocre team trying to become a playoff team.

Treliving has gambled by trading away a lot of picks in order to speed up the rebuild. If it doesn't work, and this remains a mediocre team, there will be a real price to pay down the line. People can fool themselves by pointing to the odds of any given pick turning into an NHL difference-maker, but that wealth of picks represents a major part of the Flames' future intake of young prospects. This will be a worse team 4-7 years from now without them.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Frankly, I don't think most GM's in the league look at the game from the same frantic and panicked eyes as some fans do. To me, I imagine the evaluation to be like this:
Are we where we expected to be at this point? No
Are we close? Yes
Are they playing well on most nights? Yes
Would the players benefit from being left to work through this with the current coach, knowing that both the team and coach are capable of getting a lot of points quickly? Yes

Conversely...

There are three possible results with a new coach:
1. The players don't respond to new motivation and systems... Disaster
2. Players respond in the short term, but the galvanising effect soon wears off and they're left to fight for their playoff lives.
3. Team solidifies and play consistently well under the new coach. Everyone lives happily ever after.


What do you think is most likely? Personally, I see less risk with the same likelihood of gain with glen. I think there's hidden benefit in having the team working through this and believing in each other. If they bring in a new coach with a new system, what does that say to the players about what they have been trying to accomplish the last 18 months?

And I know that no one is going to raise their hand on this one, but I am quite certain that a lot of the people who are wishing we had ourselves a Girard gallant would have been the same ones starting the fire gallant polls 1 year ago had they been panther fans.

Everyone knows the issue in Florida was management not coaching, even at the time. I think your selling CP community short.

[The Fonz]

The poll results are very interesting when broken down:

Votes 1-400, days 1-3
75% Yes
25% No

Votes 400-500, day 4
45% Yes
55% No

Total
69% Yes
31% No

0GP during this time