Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gallant wasn't available.

At the time of his original hiring, yes. But he was available in-between.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by kermitology

At the time of his original hiring, yes. But he was available in-between.

He was fired after GG was hired. The Flames would have had to fire GG one month into his first season.

[ricardodw]

There are not a lot of guys on this team that will be motivated by a demanding coach like Sutter.

Pretty sure that GG is not telling them to avoid physical contact.

There are a very few guys in the locker room that are not financial set for life and would catch on as support players for winning/over achieving teams teams.

Far too many Lady Byng candidates that have important roles on the team.

Hard to find a core player on the Flames that would try to inspire the team by playing physical or fighting.

[kukkudo]

One thing is if they do keep GG till the end of the season. Ownership better be prepared with there cheque book cause I have a feeling some elite candidates are going to be up for grabs. Lots of teams are going to be throwing some stupid money around to bring these guys in.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are not a lot of guys on this team that will be motivated by a demanding coach like Sutter.

Pretty sure that GG is not telling them to avoid physical contact.

There are a very few guys in the locker room that are not financial set for life and would catch on as support players for winning/over achieving teams teams.

Far too many Lady Byng candidates that have important roles on the team.

Hard to find a core player on the Flames that would try to inspire the team by playing physical or fighting.

Tkachuck and Gio are two of the core that can and do play physically. It's not that hard to find unless you don't want to find them because it doesn't fit what you are saying.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

This would be the worst reason to fire him.

The flames function is to entertain, when he patrons don’t like one of the parts it’s natural to remove it.

people seem to forget csec is an entertainment organiztion

[Classic_Sniper]

Flames should fire their 4th line. We’ve been beaten soundly by other team’s 4th lines this season (i.e. Canadiens, Leafs, Flyers & etc). Wouldn’t it be nice to have a 4th line that could have won us a game or 2 by now? Would anyone be complaining if our record was 20-13-3 instead?

People give the 4th line a free pass because they know they stink. But guess what, the amount of ice time they play in an 82 season is equivalent to 12-15 games. If we want to be a .600 winning percentage team, how can we be that if the 4th line isn’t going to win us their fair share of games? Other 4 lines do it, why can’t ours?

I say we fire the 4th line instead and bring up Mangiapane, Hrivik and Klimchuk. Hathaway and Jankowski have come up from the minors and are currently playing on one of our best performing lines. It could work out well.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Chingas

Tkachuck and Gio are two of the core that can and do play physically. It's not that hard to find unless you don't want to find them because it doesn't fit what you are saying.

Gio has done that in the past but less than 1 hit per game since he signed his big contract. Remember when Gio last pulled a guy off a Flame goalie and gave him a face wash and challenged him to drop them??? No that was Engelland.

Tkachuk plays Burrows tough.

Even then you can come up with 2 possibilities out of the Flames best 12 players.

The only core players that have significant jam are Bennett and Ferland and they are not getting a lot of ice time AND they have not signed their big contracts yet.


If Babcock were to leave the Leafs to take over the Flames he would immediately demand Treviling get him 3-4 players that play a regular shift that would play a heavy game.


Trevling lost by bring Brouwer in at the end of his career. and has not done anything to fix that mistake,

Brouwer probably did not figure that he would be so lonely as a heavy player on the team after he was one of 6-7 on the Blues.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gio has done that in the past but less than 1 hit per game since he signed his big contract. Remember when Gio last pulled a guy off a Flame goalie and gave him a face wash and challenged him to drop them??? No that was Engelland.

Tkachuk plays Burrows tough.

Even then you can come up with 2 possibilities out of the Flames best 12 players.

The only core players that have significant jam are Bennett and Ferland and they are not getting a lot of ice time AND they have not signed their big contracts yet.


If Babcock were to leave the Leafs to take over the Flames he would immediately demand Treviling get him 3-4 players that play a regular shift that would play a heavy game.


Trevling lost by bring Brouwer in at the end of his career. and has not done anything to fix that mistake,

Brouwer probably did not figure that he would be so lonely as a heavy player on the team after he was one of 6-7 on the Blues.

Are you a Flames fan? Because Ferland is on the top line and 1st pp unit...

Tkachuk fought twice last year as a 19 year old and consistently throws his body around and lives in the tough areas. Comparing him to the Dbag king Burrows makes me question if you are here to have a convo or just stir the pot.

[jayswin]

Both Bennett and Ferland are getting lots of ice time, RicardoW. Be careful, you'll out yourself as a Jets fan if you don't pay close attention to Flames stats while deriding the team without watching them, pretending to be a fan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

The flames function is to entertain, when he patrons don’t like one of the parts it’s natural to remove it.

people seem to forget csec is an entertainment organiztion

Ok sure so maybe they should just use the sun’s “you be the boss” survey results to make all hockey decisions?

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ok sure so maybe they should just use the sun’s “you be the boss” survey results to make all hockey decisions?

If you think these things don’t make a difference then I’m sorry.

Jagr was brough in for fan appeal and to distract from the arena issue - it worked, but a terrible game decision

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ok sure so maybe they should just use the sun’s “you be the boss” survey results to make all hockey decisions?

How often do head coaches that the majority of fans want fired prove everyone wrong? Fans are typically ahead of the curve with head coach being fired as nobody knows the product better than the paying customers and fans that invest their time into the team. It’s a matter of the GM accepting fault of hiring the wrong guy, notifying ownership of the mistake and how much money they will pay him not to coach, finding the new guy and negotiating his salary, etc. Lots of moving parts but Gulutzan will be fired in 2018 and it’s just a matter of when.

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Are you a Flames fan? Because Ferland is on the top line and 1st pp unit...

Tkachuk fought twice last year as a 19 year old and consistently throws his body around and lives in the tough areas. Comparing him to the Dbag king Burrows makes me question if you are here to have a convo or just stir the pot.

While Tkachuk may live in the tough areas, he definitely hasn't been throwing his body around this year. He has 31 hits through 34 games this season.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Both Bennett and Ferland are getting lots of ice time, RicardoW. Be careful, you'll out yourself as a Jets fan if you don't pay close attention to Flames stats while deriding the team without watching them, pretending to be a fan.

Yep Ferland is 11th in Toi and Bennett is 12th.

There are only 13 players in the top 3 lines and 2 pairings of defensemen. So the Flames are regularly putting out 5 man units that only accidentally make physical contact with the other team.

Try finding a softer team in the league.

The Flames are 31st in the league in teams hits.


I am saying that the Flames have a personnel problem that will not get solved by a new coach unless he has enough clout to force player changes.

GG had no trouble playing Engelland and his style 18:20 a game for 81 games last season. The Flames just don't have hard players as talented as Engelland. A new coach would be worth 5M / year if he could get Hamilton to play more like Pronger and less like Bouwmeester.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep Ferland is 11th in Toi and Bennett is 12th.

There are only 13 players in the top 3 lines and 2 pairings of defensemen. So the Flames are regularly putting out 5 man units that only accidentally make physical contact with the other team.

Try finding a softer team in the league.

The Flames are 31st in the league in teams hits.


I am saying that the Flames have a personnel problem that will not get solved by a new coach unless he has enough clout to force player changes.

GG had no trouble playing Engelland and his style 18:20 a game for 81 games last season. The Flames just don't have hard players as talented as Engelland. A new coach would be worth 5M / year if he could get Hamilton to play more like Pronger and less like Bouwmeester.

It's the style of game they play. They check with their sticks about 90% of the time and usually use their body to angle guys off and get in the way rather than lay out a hit. It's due to Gulutzan's coaching style, not because of our personnel.

But that recognition requires a little bit of critical thinking on your part, which isn't your M.O.

Merry Christmas Ricardo!

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It's the style of game they play. They check with their sticks about 90% of the time and usually use their body to angle guys off and get in the way rather than lay out a hit. It's due to Gulutzan's coaching style, not because of our personnel.

But that recognition requires a little bit of critical thinking on your part, which isn't your M.O.

Merry Christmas Ricardo!

Which is the main reason I want GG gone. Tired of losing my voice while screaming at the TV "PLAY THE MAN!" inevitably we get scored on, it looks so awkward too, guys leaning off balance trying to poke at pucks and sticks. I think the off balance pokes contribute to slow breakouts and defensive recoveries as well. Incredibly ugly hockey.

[GioforPM]

If only they could hit like first place Edmonton or fourth place Arizona. Or sixth place Buffalo. Seriously, one thing that looking at hitting stats tell some you - there's no correlation, positive or negative, with hits per game and winning.

And we all know how much those stats differ from arena to arena.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep Ferland is 11th in Toi and Bennett is 12th.

There are only 13 players in the top 3 lines and 2 pairings of defensemen. So the Flames are regularly putting out 5 man units that only accidentally make physical contact with the other team.

Try finding a softer team in the league.

The Flames are 31st in the league in teams hits.


I am saying that the Flames have a personnel problem that will not get solved by a new coach unless he has enough clout to force player changes.

GG had no trouble playing Engelland and his style 18:20 a game for 81 games last season. The Flames just don't have hard players as talented as Engelland. A new coach would be worth 5M / year if he could get Hamilton to play more like Pronger and less like Bouwmeester.

Dmen play more than forwards and Ferland is not good enough defensively to be on the PK.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Which is the main reason I want GG gone. Tired of losing my voice while screaming at the TV "PLAY THE MAN!" inevitably we get scored on, it looks so awkward too, guys leaning off balance trying to poke at pucks and sticks. I think the off balance pokes contribute to slow breakouts and defensive recoveries as well. Incredibly ugly hockey.

I actually think it's far more effective in the modern NHL to play the way Gulutzan wants. The game is skill and speed now, not so much about physicality. It comes into play now and then, but not very often the way it used to. You still need physicality to battle for pucks.