The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[calgaryred]

Loved the movie probably one of my favorite Star Wars films to date. Too many people have expectations like they own the franchise. I came with no expectations, and enjoyed the movie, no idea where the story is going to go now and I love it.

[Flashpoint]

Poll Request

How did you feel about Last Jedi?

Loved it - it was everything I hoped
Liked it - flawed, but fun
Disliked it - disappointed and felt it missed opportunities
Hated it - Damaged my childhood memories

Would LOVE to see what a savvy community would vote given there isn’t ballot box stuffing here.

Really appreciate the in depth discussions for the past several pages. I still love it myself, but have a much better understanding of why others don’t.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Agreed on the poll. Good idea. Except I’d add a neutral option for those that neither liked or disliked it.

[Wormius]

If you're neutral on the movie, isn't that essentially not liking it?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Agreed on the poll. Good idea. Except I’d add a neutral option for those that neither liked or disliked it.

Nah you Switzerland suckas shouldn’t get a choice. Abstain from voting, neutral isn't an opinion.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If you're neutral on the movie, isn't that essentially not liking it?

Neutral and dislike aren’t the same thing. In fact, they are fundamentally different.

That’s like saying if you didn’t dislike it then you must have liked it. It’s not black and white.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If you're neutral on the movie, isn't that essentially not liking it?

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

[Wormius]

I know the concepts are different, I just can't envision how you could apply them to feelings on a movie. How could you not like the movie, while also not dislike it. I mean, if you're in the theater just tolerating watching the movie, I don't know how you could call that neutral.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I know the concepts are different, I just can't envision how you could apply them to feelings on a movie. How could you not like the movie, while also not dislike it. I mean, if you're in the theater just tolerating watching the movie, I don't know how you could call that neutral.

It’s more like you might like some things and dislike others about the movie leaving an overall neutral impression. Because you’re right, someone who just feels nothing about every aspect of the movie is clearly a sociopath.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

I always found that line funny as that's an absolute statement made by a Jedi.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I always found that line funny as that's an absolute statement made by a Jedi.

It’s like rain , on your wedding day...

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I always found that line funny as that's an absolute statement made by a Jedi.

It's not even the only absolute made by a Jedi:

"Do, or do not. There is no try."

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I think that was all very unreasonable for George Lucas's Luke.

He left his training because of a feeling that his friends were in danger, against all warnings from Yoda and Obi-won. He put all of his friends at risk to save Han from Jabba. He let himself be taken and stood face to face with the most evil man in the universe just on the hope that he could persuade his father to return to the light side, even knowing all the evil he had committed. Dude was partially responsible for blowing up planets and killing an untold number of Admirals and yet Luke still wouldn't kill him.

I had a very hard time believing that Luke would draw a lightsaber on a sleeping Ben, his nephew, even with the dark side growing in him. Luke was a stereotype of an internal optimist, who was ultimately able to save his fathers soul from the dark side. For me it was a huge jump to make him willing to even consider striking down a sleeping blood relative who hadn't actually turned to the dark side yet.

Sorry Leia, I've come here to face him but I can't save him. Yeah I saved Dad who has been on the Dark Side for 20 years, but I'm not even going to try with your kid. Heck it's not even worth my time to leave my island to help you.

I agree with Hamill, it worked for the story, it was reasonable in the context, but it wasn't the Luke Skywalker from the original Trilogy.

This assumes that after 30 years Luke is still the same person. How many of us can think back to ourselves 30 odd years ago and recognize that person?

I think Luke's arc is one of the best things in this movie. Luke realizes the fundamental conceit of the story up to now and addresses it. The Galaxy would be a much better place if the Skywalkers stopped trying to protect it and instead tried to protect the Galaxy from the Skywalkers.

I think it all works together neatly and signals why Luke separates himself from the Force. Luke feels like he creates and therefore must destroy another Vader, in the process he realizes what the real problem is. The damn Skywalkers and the Jedi.

I wish the movie really took that leap. It would have been appropriate with the context of this movie's theme to destroy the past for Rey to have renounced the Jedi and to have become something different. A new identity of Force users as Kylo was asking her to do. That would have kicked off a completely new branch of the story and woven new life into an incredibly tired and threadbare plot about Jedis. Who freaking cares about the Jedi at this point?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Disagree on this point. The emperor's back story wasn't important because at that point, there was no back story, those were the first movies. He also took up a role in all 3 movies vs the 1.5 that Snoke was around.
By this point Star Wars has been around for decades with loads of content and additional films at our disposal. Unless this is your first Star Wars movie I'm not sure how you wouldn't be wondering about his identity, given the existing lore.

Snoke's identity doesn't matter within the story. Just as the Emperor's didn't matter. You are projecting your own expectations, which is fine, but looking at it as a movie/trilogy, it works just fine. I don't think this is a good criticism.

As far as Rey's parents -- there's literally nothing else interesting about the character other than that bit of mystery. No dilemma, no adversity, nothing. So they gave up on something that might have given insight into the character and her motivations, and even her god like abilities.

Wow, I don't know if we're watching the same movie. Rey has almost always been the most interesting bit in these two movies. She has lots of adversity, she had to guide herself basically into becoming a powerful force user against the odds. She's fantastically acted and this latest chapter gives her more depth. How she straddles light and dark, she's raw, she's trying to find her own identity, which the parent subplot is a vessel to tell.

I get that you dislike JJ Abrams setup of the trilogy -- but since this is a trilogy, I'm not sure how Rian Johnson could go and ignore virtually everything that was built up in that film and flip the script so wildly in the follow up. Its disjointed and doesn't make sense.

He didn't set anything up. By all accounts he just threw crap at the wall and asked other people to clean the mess. And again, did you watch the TFA? Johnson ignores everything that was set up in it? Bizarre. Johnson develops the relationship between Kylo and Rey which was set up in the first movie. Answers the questions about Luke which was set up in the first movie. Reveals the true character of Kylo, again set up in the first movie. All the major character arcs are substantially pushed forward here. Yet you seem caught up on insignificant details. Snoke was in like two scenes in TFA (seriously who cares about this guy?), Rey's lineage is answered. You might not like that answer, but I think it's a fresh new take. Yay, a character who isn't a Skywalker or a Kenobi or a whoever else. A. New. Character.

Like I said, if they had the guts to reset the Star Wars universe completely, episode 7 was the time to do it. Now they have this sort of half in, half out trilogy going on.

I agree TFA was terrible because it should have been something like TLJ - a clear break. But they felt they had to remind audiences why they love Star Wars. I don't hold the fact that Abrams badly messed up TFA over Johnson's head here. Johnson does his best to make chicken salad out of chicken shat.

[Roughneck]

I'm fine with Luke wanting the Jedi to end, and having a bit of an existential crisis about them after his issue with Kylo. It sets up a great fit to the trilogy. 1st Trilogy about hte fall of the Jedi because Anakin felt love and loss and was manipulated by someone who could offer it to him. Second trilogy is Luke's journey to redeming his father and bringing him back to the light, that love was powerful enough to bring him back. Then this trilogy would culminate with the acceptance that the Jedi's views weren't as 'absolute' as they thought, that there was balance within the force itself that each user needed to balance to be as powerful as they could be, etc. Not sure they're going this way, as it is Kylo who wants to find something new and Rey has "the past" hidden in the Falcon.


What bothers me about it is this: Why would Luke go into exile not wanting to be found, but leaving a fragmented map, with the final part hidden in his droid that went into hibernation until a coincidental time that the same person who was being led to his father's light sabre and given a vision, showed up on the planet. And then when she follows the map, with this unique token that implies some connection (whatever that connection might be), he tosses it aside and doesn't seem to have any sort of knowing who she is, or sensing any importance, and is all in all a pretty crappy mentor. Unless he's a Force Ghost for the last one helping her along, she just has the Jedi texts, which means that his whole arc was pretty useless, doesn't it?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It’s like rain , on your wedding day...

No it isn’t, one is ironic and the other is a lyric from an old song.

[ComixZone]

From an article on IGN:

“The Last Jedi lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot”

http://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2017/12...the-box-office

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

From an article on IGN:

“The Last Jedi lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot”

http://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2017/12...the-box-office

There's also only a few movies that could ever compete to make that claim as it lost more than most movies make and Christmas Eve doesn't help when making comparisons. Next weeks Boxing Day through New Year's Eve numbers will be the real test on what kind of multiple this movie ends up with

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

There's also only a few movies that could ever compete to make that claim as it lost more than most movies make and Christmas Eve doesn't help when making comparisons. Next weeks Boxing Day through New Year's Eve numbers will be the real test on what kind of multiple this movie ends up with

It made about half of what TFA made on Christmas Eve.

[killer_carlson]

This week will either tell if it's a mega hit or just a blockbuster.

Even though it opened December 14th, it's already 4th for the entire year on Boxoffice mojo domestic.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/...yr=2017&p=.htm

it's got a good shot at hitting 2nd, place for the year, with it being $25 Million behind Guardians for 3rd, and $65 Million behind Wonderwoman for 2nd. It will be hard pressed to hit Beauty and the Beast for 1st, as it will need $140 Million over the next week to do so. Not impossible but a hard task.

So while there are people out there cheering for it's demise - largely because it didn't meet their intended narrative - there are hundreds of other movies who would desperately wish to be as "bad" or as "unsuccessful"