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Old 12-20-2017, 11:32 AM   #4901
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Originally Posted by colbym72 View Post
Very physical team, very unpredictable, bad fancy stats
I thought the Kings were a top possesion team last year? I could be wrong but I recall hearing that being discussed when they missed?
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:34 AM   #4902
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I thought the Kings were a top possesion team last year? I could be wrong but I recall hearing that being discussed when they missed?
Dunno about the Kings but the Kongs were not.

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Old 12-20-2017, 11:46 AM   #4903
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I thought the Kings were a top possesion team last year? I could be wrong but I recall hearing that being discussed when they missed?
They were I was just making a joke at the expense of the typo
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:46 AM   #4904
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Hats off to you, ashasx and Cisinmyblood-you guys know what you are talking about in this thread, well done.

You should both just defiantly drop the mic. Lol
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:06 PM   #4905
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Did somebody just compare Bergeron to Backlund?

Bergeron is in the conversation for top five centres in the league, easily top ten

I know it's the holiday but let's go easy on the rum and nog.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:21 PM   #4906
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CsInMyBlood: Provides a well thought out post providing objective numbers regarding Backlund as a very good player, including a simple zone starts, production, and salary comparison with Bergeron.

Tinordi: lol are you drunk

what a terrible ####ing post

Last edited by Ashasx; 12-20-2017 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:21 PM   #4907
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Originally Posted by Tinordi View Post
Did somebody just compare Bergeron to Backlund?

Bergeron is in the conversation for top five centres in the league, easily top ten

I know it's the holiday but let's go easy on the rum and nog.
Summarizing what was a really thoughtful post down to “Someone compared Bergeron to Backlund” ignores everything else said in the post and misrepresents what was being said.
It is indeed the holidays so how about easing off on the drive bys particularly when someone put an actual effort into their post
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:33 PM   #4908
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Holy crap, some of the comparisons here for Backlund are ridiculous. Bonino is a bit low, but Kesler and Bergeron are way out of Backlund's class. Having to push for a comparison, Backlund is a lot closer to Bonino than he is to the other two.

Bonino - 429 GP, 81G (.188 GPG), 113A, 194PT (.452 PPG).
Backlund - 495 GP, 101G (.204 GPG), 146A, 247P (.499 PPG)
Kesler - 897 GP, 245G (.273 GPG), 306A, 551P (.614 PPG)
Bergeron - 926, 267G (.288 GPG), 426A, 693P (.748 PPG)

Yes, Backlund is a good player. Yes, Backlund is valuable to the team. But you have to measure what his value is going forward and what you are willing to pay for his services. Backlund is projected to hit 17G and 46P, so a step backwards in production. He's also coming up on the big 3-0. He's going to start trending down, and as age catches up to him, may revert to his injury prone days. These have to be considered when thinking value. I'm in the camp that is thinking a max of $5.5 cap hit, with a term no longer than 5 years. Anything more than that, or longer that that, and you are likely to handcuff the team. If he want more than that deal him for assets lost last summer, and go shopping in free agency this summer. There are players that can fill his skates, especially if he looks to be a third liner long term. That is not a slam at Backlund, just recognizing the reality of the game today and the influence the cap has on managing the club.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:37 PM   #4909
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I also said Backlund is an excellent player earlier in this thread.

But comparing two data points, zone starts and points, to bring Bergerons salary into the discussion is the definition of cherry picking.

My post isn't a drive by, Bergeron is one of the best centres in the league and Backlund isn't. They are not comparable players. Argue that.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:42 PM   #4910
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Backlund finished 4th in Selke voting behind Bergeron, Kesler, and Koivu.

I believe that fact alone makes them comparable players by definition. Not to mention that all 4 players had either 53 or 58 points last year.

To try and suggest they are not comparable players is an odd display of mental gymnastics.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:42 PM   #4911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
He makes north of $3M for 2 years after this. That is a terrible option


Oh wow, good for him.

I could have sworn he was on a 1 year deal at around 1 million. I must have been confused with his Columbus contract.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:45 PM   #4912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era View Post
Bonino - 429 GP, 81G (.188 GPG), 113A, 194PT (.452 PPG).
Backlund - 495 GP, 101G (.204 GPG), 146A, 247P (.499 PPG)
Kesler - 897 GP, 245G (.273 GPG), 306A, 551P (.614 PPG)
Bergeron - 926, 267G (.288 GPG), 426A, 693P (.748 PPG)
Are the beginning of their careers actually relevant?

If I'm attempting to evaluate a player, I'll look at the previous 3 or 4 seasons, and nothing more.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:11 PM   #4913
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Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood View Post
What? He is one of the best possession players in the entire NHL, so of course he is the best on the Flames.

Last year his defensive zone starts were at 65.9% and he still put up 53 points. Show me another guy in the NHL that is even close to that. I'll help you out here, Ryan Kesler.

Kesler had 58 points. So 5 more points than Backlund. Kesler makes $7.875 million a year.

The Selke winning Patrice Bergeron had 45.3 defensive zone starts and the exact same point output of Backlund last year. 53 points. Bergeron makes $8.75M a year.

For example Sean Monahan was at 38.7% defensive zone starts. So 61.3% offensive zone starts.

If you are telling me that Monahan doesn't completely benefit from having Backlund on his team you're crazy. If you're telling me that Backlund wouldn't have a pile of more points if he got some more offensive zone starts, again you're crazy.

PP, PK, shuts down the other teams top lines, still drives offense, currently second in the league in takeaways.

If you don't think Backlund is one of the most important pieces on this team, or deserves to get paid I'm not sure what you're watching.

There are only a handful of players in this league that bring the complete game that Backlund does. This team takes a HUGE step backwards without him in the fold. Treliving is smart and not going to let him slip away.
I wonder if maybe kesler putting up 75 points one year and bergeron putting up 68 has something to do with getting paid. Backlund put up 53 in a career year and and we want to throw millions at the man. Id sign him to a 5x5 but not a penny more. He is important to this team cause were simply not that good of an nhl team. You can look at possession stats all you want but at the end of the day its about winning, and the cherry on top a stanley cup.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:14 PM   #4914
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Why not sign backlund to a 5 year deal at 12 million per? Hes such an amazing player we must keep him at all costs
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:15 PM   #4915
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Why not sign backlund to a 5 year deal at 12 million per? Hes such an amazing player we must keep him at all costs
Man, you're really killing it today eh?
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:16 PM   #4916
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Why not sign backlund to a 5 year deal at 12 million per? Hes such an amazing player we must keep him at all costs
Hahaha. Are we really doing this now?
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:18 PM   #4917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC View Post
Backlund finished 4th in Selke voting behind Bergeron, Kesler, and Koivu.

I believe that fact alone makes them comparable players by definition. Not to mention that all 4 players had either 53 or 58 points last year.

To try and suggest they are not comparable players is an odd display of mental gymnastics.
A guy who came 4th in Selke voting last year is comparable to a guy who's won the freaking Selke 4 times, the most recent win being last year. Got it.

Again, I think Backlund's a great player. But Bergeron's career PPG is 50% higher.

In virtually every stat, both counting and advanced Bergeron is better. Both over their careers AND last year.

Bergeron's CF was an inhuman 59.4 last year. He lead the freaking league last year in EV CF% with 61.9. (Backlund was 55).

This isn't even to say anything about Bergeron's playoff performances which blow this even more wide open.

There's a reason they call him Perfect Patrice. He's about as perfect a hockey player as you an get. So no, pointing out that Bergeron (rightfully) makes $8 million has almost no bearing on the discussion about what Backlund should get.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #4918
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I don't think Backlund is at Bergeron's level, but no other player is. With that said, Backlund faces similar competition while getting pounded in zone starts.

Nobody is saying Backlund is equivalent and nobody is saying Backlund should make as much as he does.

Putting things in perspective, Backlund is a fantastic player and will absolutely be worth paying fair value for.

Last edited by Ashasx; 12-20-2017 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #4919
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Quote:
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A guy who came 4th in Selke voting last year is comparable to a guy who's won the freaking Selke 4 times, the most recent win being last year. Got it.
Since it's a ranking of roughly 360 forwards, 1st to 4th is a fair comparison.

So if they aren't equals, is Backlund half the player Bergeron is?
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:46 PM   #4920
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When does the trade freeze lift?
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