[PGT] Flames lose 3-2 to San Jose

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

GG was correct in his analysis, IMO. It was a bad positional decision by JG. The only debate is whether he should call out JG when asked about it. I think Sutter would have done it to Iginla (in fact I know he did).

It's a little different quality than Brodie's gaffe, say, in the 3 on 3. It's not like GG is going to explain to everyone and Brodie "hey, it's a bad idea to have the puck slide off your stick from behind the net and go to the other team while in OT".

My complaint isn't with the analysis its with the play itself, or the play that was expected. if Gaudreau gets the puck in its still entirely likely the same play occurs that results in a Sharks goal as Johnny had no support when he got in. If the plan is to get it deep and hold it, to play for OT, thats a bad plan.

[Tinordi]

Yes it's the team's fault that Gaudreau coughed the puck up on a nothing play that lead to the gwg.

[Tinordi]

GG is open to lots of criticism but the demented criticisms on him like late in this thread is a real chore to sift through.

[FanIn80]

This team is struggling to score goals. We have two of the top forwards in the game today, and probably the most offensively-capable D-core in the league... but we can't put the puck in the net more than once or twice per game.

I don't even know what to say anymore, to be honest. This organization has mishandled so much talent over the years. I don't get it. Like, just wake the **** up already. Are we really gonna piss away the next 6 years of having Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie, Jankowski, etc just like we did with Iginla and Kipper? No thanks. I'm not sticking around for that BS.

Sh***y jerseys, sh***y ice, sh***y arena, sh***y coaching, sh***y systems, sh***y contracts attached to sh***y players.

Like, come on. How many brain cells do you need to figure out this crap isn't working?

This organization literally needs an enema. Keep the GM, the AGM and 90% of the players, and just flush the rest right out of town and start over. Either that or **** off to Seattle and put us all out of our misery already.

[Ashasx]

demented criticism = anything Tinordi disagrees with

Just use ignore if it's a chore to sift through posts you don't like.

[Toonage]

Quite frankly its just as frustrating to see the Gulutzan Defense Force at work too.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

My complaint isn't with the analysis its with the play itself, or the play that was expected. if Gaudreau gets the puck in its still entirely likely the same play occurs that results in a Sharks goal as Johnny had no support when he got in. If the plan is to get it deep and hold it, to play for OT, thats a bad plan.

No, because if he gets it deep he's not the second last guy back - the Sharks have to go the full length of the ice. Or maybe the Flames retrieve the puck (some dump ins actually work). Turnovers at the blue line when moving forward are the worst.

Assuming JG had no great passing options, plan A would have been dump, get the puck, and set up for a chance. Plan B is dump, pressure and try to get a recovery when the Sharks try to break out. I don't think, with 3 minutes left, it was dump and just try and pin the puck for the rest of the game. What GG is saying is that you don't take unnecessary risks at that point, especially given your success in 3 on 3.

[kukkudo]

It's like watching Brent Sutter hockey all over again. I thought I would never have to see that garbage boring hockey again.

[Bingo]

When a player skates the puck up the wall towards the blueline he creates break downs because people have to shuffle into new assignments because he's occupying space. The left defenseman has to either a) drop out of the zone altogether or b) move to the inside high so he literally isn't in Gaudreau's way.

In this case the Flames played it smart as the defense pair backed out and avoided getting stuck, but with Gaudreau coming up the wall he turned himself into F3, meaning Jankowski had to switch into F2 and there was no high guy to avoid the three on two.

Additionally, Smith has his second of the game slide through his legs.

Creative players are given rope and I'm good with that, but they had better make damn sure they don't turn the puck over there as it's a grey zone turnover which is murder in hockey.

This play was further complicated by the fact that he was hauled down and didn't actually turn the puck over. With that it's more of a referee issue than a Gaudreau issue, but he did put the game in the hands of the official by extending himself into a dangerous spot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

It's like watching Brent Sutter hockey all over again. I thought I would never have to see that garbage boring hockey again.

Yeah I feel for you man.

Watching your team out shoot and out chance the opponent is like watching paint dry.

[GirlySports]

GG is an idiot. He should be mentioning the refs not calling the hook on Gaudreau (even if it's not true) rather then to throw his star under the bus. Make the reporters think about that.

Should be:
Reporter: What did you think of Gaudreau's decision to circle back with the puck
GG: It was fine, he's trying to make a play and he was hooked, you all saw it
Reporter: I didn't see a hook
GG: That's why you are a reporter.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Reporter: I didn't see a hook
GG: That's why you are a reporter.

Uhhh...ok.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Yes it's the team's fault that Gaudreau coughed the puck up on a nothing play that lead to the gwg.

It was a terrible goal...the Sharks didn't even get a decent chance. Smith has already owned the goal.

[Gaskal]

Two goals were on Smith. One he lets a rebound right out into the slot (Elliott style) and the ensuing shot dribbles through his legs.

The other is almost a nothing shot that again wobbles through the five hole and is stuffed in on the drive-by. It might have been Gaudreau's foolishness that forced the play back up ice, but that is a save you are expected to make every time.

Usually Smith wants another shot at it right after a bad game so I expect better vs Nashville.

[Tinordi]

GG's system is used by half the coaches in the league. It's essentially the Babcockian way. The issue is not the system. It's the horses. Calgary and Toronto play much similar systems. Except Toronto has better, faster forwards and therefore play "exciting" hockey.

Treliving said before the season started that he was concerned about talent and scoring goals. Turns out he was right. He didn't say was that the system needs work.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

GG's system is used by half the coaches in the league. It's essentially the Babcockian way. The issue is not the system. It's the horses. Calgary and Toronto play much similar systems. Except Toronto has better, faster forwards and therefore play "exciting" hockey.

Treliving said before the season started that he was concerned about talent and scoring goals. Turns out he was right. He didn't say was that the system needs work.

GG plays his 4th line more than any coach in the league and it is one of the worst 4th lines in the league. The system the Flames play might be similar to the Leafs, but it's hard to see positive results with such poor player decisions.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

GG plays his 4th line more than any coach in the league and it is one of the worst 4th line in the league. The system the Flames play might be similar to the Leafs, but it's hard to see positive results with such poor player decisions.

Yes but that's on the GM. He's hired a coach to play a system on a roster that can't handle it. Every piece in question is a decision by the GM. GG would have been clear in the interview process on the system he will employ and the players he needs to execute it.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

To me, this quote encapsulates everything that is wrong with this coaching staff:

Darren Haynes‏ @DarrenWHaynes
Glen Gulutzan not happy with Gaudreau's turnover on GWG: "You can't turn back with three minutes left, you can't turn back. You have to play forward. You can't turn back. We needed to get points. We needed to take that into overtime and get the points. We're good at 3-on-3."

So, I understand the idea of getting to overtime for the extra point, but instead of actually trying to win the game, the coaches just wanted to eat out the last 5 minutes and simply hope nothing bad happens? Don't go out and try to win the game, because you might lose it for us? I feel like that's the motto of this team: "Let's hope nothing bad happens".

Just a complete lack of killer instinct. The team was dominating the Sharks in the 3rd. Why take your foot off the gas? Gaudreau was trying to create a play and was hooked (and if the officials were calling penalties as they are read in the rulebook, it should have been called a penalty), but of course Gulutzan instead wants him to dump the puck and freely give possession away, go to the bench for a line change, and probably put the 4th line on.

.

Where did GG say he wanted to pick dumped in and possession lost? I get that your post was about the coaching staff but now you're just making things up to fit your narrative. GG said he wanted Johnny to "play forward" and that he "can't turn back" there. How is that give them the puck and go for a line change?

He was calling for a safer play than what Johnny did in that moment. Nothing more, nothing less. Perfectly acceptable.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Where did GG say he wanted to pick dumped in and possession lost? I get that your post was about the coaching staff but now you're just making things up to fit your narrative. GG said he wanted Johnny to "play forward" and that he "can't turn back" there. How is that give them the puck and go for a line change?

He was calling for a safer play than what Johnny did in that moment. Nothing more, nothing less. Perfectly acceptable.

GG literally said he was playing for a tie (despite being the much better team in the 3rd). Obviously I'm being a little obtuse here for effect, but given what we know GG likes to see, I don't think I'm far off to say that GG wanted Gaudreau to get the puck deep.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Yes but that's on the GM. He's hired a coach to play a system on a roster that can't handle it. Every piece in question is a decision by the GM. GG would have been clear in the interview process on the system he will employ and the players he needs to execute it.

I can see the argument being that BT hired GG, so he is ultimately responsible for the coach's shortcomings, but when you have the worst 4th line in the league (BT's fault), the coach has to adjust and not play them more than 75% of the other 4th lines in the league (GG's fault).