Kramer pulls a Mel Gibson

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Your "Defence of Richards" link makes a lot of sense. Personally I think
one minor instance shouldn't mark a man for life. The reason I said minor is because he was only using words. Some guys said some bad words to him and he responded with bad words back. I hate our politically correct culture. An insult is an insult. If it was motivated by their skin color that would be one thing. It seems obvious that the motivation was some things these two black men were saying which conveniently were edited from the tape. Was he right to say those bad words? No but, being wrong is a pretty natural human occurrence. Sometimes it's hard to give a measured response once someone has got under your skin.

I do wonder if the filmer had permission to film in the club. I also wonder if the filmer had some association with the two black men.

I agree with what you are saying. I don't think the people that video'd the action were associated with the men in question....but we will probably nver know.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

If you read my other posts...that is exactly what I am saying.....the word itself is not racist it is how the word is used.

Yeah, I just skimmed all the other posts, I agree with your comment.

Also, wow, just saw the video and Richards totally is a racist. I understand you say things in the heat of the battle but not to the extent that he did. The first 2 lines he used were way over the line. I too will view him differently now. That was uncalled for.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

That's different. It is well known that when African-Americans call themselves that, that it's a term for "bro" or "dude". Like hey "n....." what's up? It's acceptable in that tone to them because they are using it in a tone that doesn't portray hate.

I also thought that they use the word because, it takes away from when other people use it as a insult.

[redforever]

In defense of Richards? We dont know the context? He might have had a mental breakdown, etc etc etc. Please!!!!!

I am sorry, no matter if he was being heckled or whatever, the use of the "n" word is plain derogatory and racist, totally uncalled for.

You should not worry so much about being "politically correct" as you should be about saying this was wrong under any circumstance. I am sorry, he is in the business of being a stand up comediean. Being heckled comes with the grounds. If you cant take the heat, for God's sake, get off the stage and cool off before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Find another line of work. If he has made amends, so be it, much better however to use self discipline and not let it get this far in the first place.

Until people start calling it wrong, instead of trying to defend the wrong, the cycle of racial intolerance will never be broken. My father always told me, if you cant be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
And as far as I am concerned, trying to defend his actions under any circumstances is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by redforever

In defense of Richards? We dont know the context? He might have had a mental breakdown, etc etc etc. Please!!!!!

I am sorry, no matter if he was being heckled or whatever, the use of the "n" word is plain derogatory and racist, totally uncalled for.

You should not worry so much about being "politically correct" as you should be about saying this was wrong under any circumstance. I am sorry, he is in the business of being a stand up comediean. Being heckled comes with the grounds. If you cant take the heat, for God's sake, get off the stage and cool off before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Find another line of work. If he has made amends, so be it, much better however to use self discipline and not let it get this far in the first place.

Until people start calling it wrong, instead of trying to defend the wrong, the cycle of racial intolerance will never be broken. My father always told me, if you cant be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
And as far as I am concerned, trying to defend his actions under any circumstances is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

So what did these guys in the crowd say to him? They can just spew out anything they want at this guy and he has to take it? I'm not defending racist comments, but I can see how someone can flip out and say really harsh things they don't mean..I've done it myself. I'm sure you have too. Maybe these guys were pushing his buttons so much and he just lost it and wanted to insult them in the most directly obvious and offensive way possible. Definitely a mistake on his part, but I don't like how these dudes in the crowd instantly become the victims in this. I don't know what they said to provoke that kind of reaction. Richards pulled a verbal Zidane headbutt.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by redforever

In defense of Richards? We dont know the context? He might have had a mental breakdown, etc etc etc. Please!!!!!

I am sorry, no matter if he was being heckled or whatever, the use of the "n" word is plain derogatory and racist, totally uncalled for.

You should not worry so much about being "politically correct" as you should be about saying this was wrong under any circumstance. I am sorry, he is in the business of being a stand up comediean. Being heckled comes with the grounds. If you cant take the heat, for God's sake, get off the stage and cool off before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Find another line of work. If he has made amends, so be it, much better however to use self discipline and not let it get this far in the first place.

Until people start calling it wrong, instead of trying to defend the wrong, the cycle of racial intolerance will never be broken. My father always told me, if you cant be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
And as far as I am concerned, trying to defend his actions under any circumstances is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Uh...I think everone has said it was wrong....what some people are arguing, including myself, is that just because he said what he said, doesn't make him a racist. He said some racist things yes....but that does not make him a racist.

Like I said before.....if he said something like this when his mind was clear and he was not clouded by his anger....then I would put a lot more weight into the assumption that he is a racist.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by redforever

In defense of Richards? We dont know the context? He might have had a mental breakdown, etc etc etc. Please!!!!!

I am sorry, no matter if he was being heckled or whatever, the use of the "n" word is plain derogatory and racist, totally uncalled for.

You should not worry so much about being "politically correct" as you should be about saying this was wrong under any circumstance. I am sorry, he is in the business of being a stand up comediean. Being heckled comes with the grounds. If you cant take the heat, for God's sake, get off the stage and cool off before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Find another line of work. If he has made amends, so be it, much better however to use self discipline and not let it get this far in the first place.

Until people start calling it wrong, instead of trying to defend the wrong, the cycle of racial intolerance will never be broken. My father always told me, if you cant be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
And as far as I am concerned, trying to defend his actions under any circumstances is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Until people accept that calling a white person a cracker or a honky is "racist", the cycle of racial intolerance will continue also.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

So I guess all black people are racist then because the are always calling each other niger.

Let's not get into the whole is it ok if african amercains use the n word debate, but there is defintley a difference when you hear a black guy referring to another black guy as a "n" (usually 99% of the time not used as an insult) then a white comedian popping an "n" bomb to the two guys.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Your "Defence of Richards" link makes a lot of sense. Personally I think
one minor instance shouldn't mark a man for life. The reason I said minor is because he was only using words. Some guys said some bad words to him and he responded with bad words back. I hate our politically correct culture. An insult is an insult. If it was motivated by their skin color that would be one thing. It seems obvious that the motivation was some things these two black men were saying which conveniently were edited from the tape. Was he right to say those bad words? No but, being wrong is a pretty natural human occurrence. Sometimes it's hard to give a measured response once someone has got under your skin.

I do wonder if the filmer had permission to film in the club. I also wonder if the filmer had some association with the two black men.

I disagree. That article isn't convincing at all. If the video was edited because the person with the camcorder was in cahoots with the "two black men" Richards response still doesn't make sense. After Richards said the "n" word only then did the two hecklers say "that was uncalled for". Leading to believe that it was Richards that started with the racial comments. Logically if you called someone a MF'er and they responded back with MF'er, you would think that response was fair as you had set the bar with the first comment.

"Conveniently edited"? How can you automatically assume that this is the case? I haven't read or heard anything about this that eluded to the fact that there is something before this clip that makes two hecklers guilty of playing the race card.

The conculsions you have made make no sense.

Heckling comedians is nothing new. Richards is not a rookie, he has done this before. I don't see why all of sudden these hecklers got under skin and provoked a racial attack that was by accident.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Heckling comedians is nothing new. Richards is not a rookie, he has done this before. I don't see why all of sudden these hecklers got under skin and provoked a racial attack that was by accident.

I was reading somewhere that he is actually pretty new at the stand-up game, so he may not be experienced enough to deal with hecklers rationally, well, is not experienced enough.

No matter what, thats a pretty damn bad way to talk to someone.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Your "Defence of Richards" link makes a lot of sense. Personally I think
one minor instance shouldn't mark a man for life. The reason I said minor is because he was only using words. Some guys said some bad words to him and he responded with bad words back. I hate our politically correct culture. An insult is an insult. If it was motivated by their skin color that would be one thing. It seems obvious that the motivation was some things these two black men were saying which conveniently were edited from the tape. Was he right to say those bad words? No but, being wrong is a pretty natural human occurrence. Sometimes it's hard to give a measured response once someone has got under your skin.

I do wonder if the filmer had permission to film in the club. I also wonder if the filmer had some association with the two black men.

You kill me Calgaryborn...gay marriage is a sin but your allowed to go off on a racial tirade and yell slurs at someone for 2 minutes as long as you were goaded into it?

Is that what your religion teaches you? No tolerance for gays but a tolerence for biggots and hate mongerers? How would you feel if his rant was directed at Christians, and not afro-americans? Me thinks you wouldnt have just posted the same thing.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Heckling comedians is nothing new. Richards is not a rookie, he has done this before. I don't see why all of sudden these hecklers got under skin and provoked a racial attack that was by accident.

Yes but we don't know what is going on in his personal life. Maybe he's dealing with some other issues and this time the heckling just set him off. It happens. He shouldn't have made it a racial thing though. He should've just slammed them in another way.

Personally I think this entire thing is some Kauffmanesque shirade to get Richards some publicity. He will eventually reveal it.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I was reading somewhere that he is actually pretty new at the stand-up game, so he may not be experienced enough to deal with hecklers rationally, well, is not experienced enough.

No matter what, thats a pretty damn bad way to talk to someone.

I saw him several years ago on tv with the just for laughs show. Hardly an excuse because you are not as seasoned as someone else.

I know you are just playing devil advocate but, thats like saying Mel Gibson is acutally pretty new at the getting arrested-game. And doesn't know how to handle getting cuffed by a police officer, let alone a jewish one.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Let's not get into the whole is it ok if african amercains use the n word debate, but there is defintley a difference when you hear a black guy referring to another black guy as a "n" (usually 99% of the time not used as an insult) then a white comedian popping an "n" bomb to the two guys.

Holy ****. I wasn't saying that it wasn't a racist comment. I was responding to someone who said that anyone who calls anyone else ****** is a racist....when in fack it isn't the case.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by redforever

In defense of Richards? We dont know the context? He might have had a mental breakdown, etc etc etc. Please!!!!!

No, you don't know the context. You saw 5 minutes of a comedian going off on hecklers.

If you saw a 5 minute video of 2 white police officers beating someone up. Would you automatically jump to the conclusion that this was police battery, and excessive force? How do you know that the police officers lives weren't in danger, and the show of force was fully justified? How do you know that 30 seconds before the film started that the person being apprehended didn't threaten the lives of the police officers and 5 innocent bystanders?

Judging someone with out context makes you an idiot. And part of the problem not part of the solution.

Originally Posted by redforever

You should not worry so much about being "politically correct" as you should be about saying this was wrong under any circumstance. I am sorry, he is in the business of being a stand up comediean. Being heckled comes with the grounds. If you cant take the heat, for God's sake, get off the stage and cool off before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Find another line of work. If he has made amends, so be it, much better however to use self discipline and not let it get this far in the first place.

Being heckled does come with the territory. But you don't know if it was light hearted heckling or if Richards was being verbally attacked. Again, context my friend.

Originally Posted by redforever

Until people start calling it wrong, instead of trying to defend the wrong, the cycle of racial intolerance will never be broken. My father always told me, if you cant be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
And as far as I am concerned, trying to defend his actions under any circumstances is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Jumping to conclusions, and judging solely based one sided facts, makes you part of the problem. So basically to be "part of the solution", I am judge him on this 5 minute video and assume that Richards is a racist?
Sorry, but I would like to understand the reason before I judge and label people.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

You kill me Calgaryborn...gay marriage is a sin but your allowed to go off on a racial tirade and yell slurs at someone for 2 minutes as long as you were goaded into it?

Is that what your religion teaches you? No tolerance for gays but a tolerence for biggots and hate mongerers? How would you feel if his rant was directed at Christians, and not afro-americans? Me thinks you wouldnt have just posted the same thing.

i don't think he is saying it was ok to say what he did. He is simply saying that his remarks may just have been from being aggitated from what ever was going on in his life....and doesn't mean he is really a racist person. Thats what I got from his post. If that is wrong CB let me know.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

You kill me Calgaryborn...gay marriage is a sin but your allowed to go off on a racial tirade and yell slurs at someone for 2 minutes as long as you were goaded into it?

Is that what your religion teaches you? No tolerance for gays but a tolerence for biggots and hate mongerers? How would you feel if his rant was directed at Christians, and not afro-americans? Me thinks you wouldnt have just posted the same thing.

Doesn't this remind of you of some peoples thoughts on the Rodney King tape?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Doesn't this remind of you of some peoples thoughts on the Rodney King tape?

Meaning what?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Your "Defence of Richards" link makes a lot of sense. Personally I think
one minor instance shouldn't mark a man for life. The reason I said minor is because he was only using words. Some guys said some bad words to him and he responded with bad words back. I hate our politically correct culture. An insult is an insult. If it was motivated by their skin color that would be one thing. It seems obvious that the motivation was some things these two black men were saying which conveniently were edited from the tape. Was he right to say those bad words? No but, being wrong is a pretty natural human occurrence. Sometimes it's hard to give a measured response once someone has got under your skin.

I do wonder if the filmer had permission to film in the club. I also wonder if the filmer had some association with the two black men.

On what ****ing planet were you born and raised on to think that by NOT USING racist terms is being politically correct? This has absolutly nothing to do with political correctness.

Have you ever even seen a stand up routine? Comedians get heckled ALL THE TIME. The professionals can handle themselves and can shut them up without using (in your eyes politically uncorrect in everyone else's racist) ignorance and hate.

And once again, you have polluted a thread with irrelevant points like "if the filmer had permission to film in the club" or, "had some association with the two black men". How is this of any business of anyone?

I am surprised you have composed yourself long enough and not called anyone a lefty like usual.

[ken0042]

Guys, I know this is a hot topic. But let's keep it civil; argue your point and don't let this come down to name calling.

I hear the last person who let somebody get under their skin and resorted to name calling got into trouble.