[PGT] Blues 4 Flames 7

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Although I agree that Treliving overpaid in both these cases, with how the team played tonight, you can see his vision for how the team would lwin. Solid D pairings on the ice at all times and a 4th line with some energy and speed.

As you point out with Hamonic, it's really way too soon to draw a conclusion.

I don't think it was an overpayment at all. If all Lazar becomes is a good 4th line centre, then that's still worth a 2nd round pick - and if people don't think so, I'd argue it's because they don't understand the true value of a 2nd round pick. I think that in that role (4th line C), at 22 years old, Lazar could be a piece that will be here for a very long time and could really shine in that spot.

And agreed - the fans who were razzing Lack are an embarrassment to the C of Red.

[puckedoff]

^ Other fans made up for it with an "Eddie" chant after his amazing toe save.

Brouwer had a great game as well, he is actually an awesome fourth liner. Other teams can't take that shift off now since he can get it in their zone and keep a cycle going, and get an offensive zone faceoff.

[CroFlames]

With the team really turning a corner when Stajan was scratched the first time, does this spell the end of his playing days?

If so, I have no doubt he'll handle it with grace and class, just like he's done his whole career.

Barring injuries, I'm not sure how he can break back into the lineup. Jankowski has played great at both ends of the ice.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

With the team really turning a corner when Stajan was scratched the first time, does this spell the end of his playing days?

If so, I have no doubt he'll handle it with grace and class, just like he's done his whole career.

Barring injuries, I'm not sure how he can break back into the lineup. Jankowski has played great at both ends of the ice.

I suspect Lazar will have a down spell from time to time, and Stajan will check back in. But for sure he will be out the majority of games. Just not as fast or strong as Lazar, though his IQ is arguably way higher. As long as his defensive faceoff and PK positions are filled, he's now the odd man out. Jankowski seems to be really good at faceoffs and I daresay could be a great PK centre with his reach.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't think it was an overpayment at all. If all Lazar becomes is a good 4th line centre, then that's still worth a 2nd round pick - and if people don't think so, I'd argue it's because they don't understand the true value of a 2nd round pick. I think that in that role (4th line C), at 22 years old, Lazar could be a piece that will be here for a very long time and could really shine in that spot.

And agreed - the fans who were razzing Lack are an embarrassment to the C of Red.

Time will tell on Lazar. If alll your 2nd round picks max out as a 4th line player, where do you get your top 9 forwards from?

IMO we need to see if Lazar ends up better than a replacement level forward.

[TheIronMaiden]

I am looking forward to this road trip. Feels like the Flames are gonna play with some swagger.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

With the team really turning a corner when Stajan was scratched the first time, does this spell the end of his playing days?

If so, I have no doubt he'll handle it with grace and class, just like he's done his whole career.

Barring injuries, I'm not sure how he can break back into the lineup. Jankowski has played great at both ends of the ice.

Flames will have more injuries and Stajan is the 13th best forward on the team.

[transplant99]

Yeah, the 4th line looks leaps and bounds better than it has for sure but its not just because Lazar is in the middle. He skates really well. That's about all I see out of him. His hockey IQ is non-existent for the most part and even with the two vets playing much better than they had been, he looks like he has since he arrived in Calgary. Not really sure what it is he offers other than, again, his fleetness of foot.

Hope there is more there for what it cost to acquire him, but there is not a lot of indication that is the case. You would think a guy like that could be an asset on the PK but he doesnt get that kind of responsibility either.

[BigRed]

I hear what you're saying, but why would they put a player with limited hockey IQ at centre? Isn't that the place where he ends up doing the most damage?

Lazar has speed and physicality, but you can't be a total dummy to be thrown in at C, even on the 4th line. I feel like I've seen several good defensive plays on his part from the C position, so maybe the Flames feel he can grow into it.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah, the 4th line looks leaps and bounds better than it has for sure but its not just because Lazar is in the middle. He skates really well. That's about all I see out of him. His hockey IQ is non-existent for the most part and even with the two vets playing much better than they had been, he looks like he has since he arrived in Calgary. Not really sure what it is he offers other than, again, his fleetness of foot..

[kevman]

I know GG gets criticized around here for not riding certain lines but I appreciate that the Flames can play a game like that by rolling 4 lines. Tkachuk, Monahan and Backlund leading forwards in ice-time with ~17 minutes each. Lazar, Brouwer and Versteeg rounding out the list playing 10-12 minutes. Sure is nice to have that kind of depth.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by kevman

I know GG gets criticized around here for not riding certain lines but I appreciate that the Flames can play a game like that by rolling 4 lines. Tkachuk, Monahan and Backlund leading forwards in ice-time with ~17 minutes each. Lazar, Brouwer and Versteeg rounding out the list playing 10-12 minutes. Sure is nice to have that kind of depth.

Some games I hate it, but I think if we can roll 4 lines and win....it's going to pay dividends later in the year and into playoffs. Guys should be in better physical shape.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Time will tell on Lazar. If alll your 2nd round picks max out as a 4th line player, where do you get your top 9 forwards from?

IMO we need to see if Lazar ends up better than a replacement level forward.

Well, when you get an elite left winger, and a high end puck moving D each in the 4th round, you can afford to fill out other parts of your roster in other ways.

Not all picks are going to hit - the fact that we haven't had a real dud outside of...Hunter Smith and Mason McDonald? in recent years speaks to just how well we have been drafting. Plenty of 2nd round picks fail to ever become every day NHL'ers, so in my eyes moving a 2nd round pick in a "weaker" draft for an every day NHLer who is only 21/22...that's a decent value proposition. Especially when you take into consideration that our management has praised his off-ice abilities already as a 21/22 year old.

...also, I feel like "Hockey IQ" is so over-used on this forum that the term is effectively meaningless.

[IGGYFORMVP]

Big shout out to Gaskal, that ATL was great. Such a great game and final a PGT with minimal bitching. Great to see the offence rounding in to shape, that third line looked fantastic. Love to see to the flames put up touchdown, and they could have had more.

Lets take this show on the road!

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by kevman

I know GG gets criticized around here for not riding certain lines but I appreciate that the Flames can play a game like that by rolling 4 lines. Tkachuk, Monahan and Backlund leading forwards in ice-time with ~17 minutes each. Lazar, Brouwer and Versteeg rounding out the list playing 10-12 minutes. Sure is nice to have that kind of depth.

I don't fault GG for rolling lines at all as it really is what you need to do in the NHL. Babcock also has a philosophy of rolling 4 lines. His 4th liners probably get a little bit more time.

[868904]

With regards to Lazar, every player can look like crap without confidence. Johnny has looked like crap before, so has Monny. Dougie Hamilton looks like absolute crap right now, just bad read after bad read, lost physical battles, bad passes, missing the net but we've also seen him be good.

We still don't know what we have in Lazar yet because it's still a very small sample size with him. He is still coming off a wasted year due to Mono and a bad season. We need to see him in a regular role for about 50 games in a Flames jersey before we call him a wasted asset. There has to be more there than what we are seeing. The guy was a consensus top 20 pick in a good draft and a prominent member of Canada's Program of Excellence. It is GG's job to build Lazar's confidence up and help realize his potential.

[djsFlames]

Wouldn't be opposed to Gillies but I'd like to call on Rittich this time.

Call it curiosity, given his Matt Murray like numbers since the start of last season..

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by kevman

I know GG gets criticized around here for not riding certain lines but I appreciate that the Flames can play a game like that by rolling 4 lines. Tkachuk, Monahan and Backlund leading forwards in ice-time with ~17 minutes each. Lazar, Brouwer and Versteeg rounding out the list playing 10-12 minutes. Sure is nice to have that kind of depth.

This is precisely correct. Take a look at the Flames top forwards' ice time last night:

M. Tkachuk — 17:36
S. Monahan — 17:25
M. Backlund — 17:23

Only three forwards with +17 mins of ice time. Now compare that to what is taking place in the gong-show up North:

C. McDavid — 27:24
L. Draisaitl — 22:58
P. Maroon — 18:50

Even in a game that went past OT, +27 mins for a forward is insane. The last game the Flames played to a shootout all their forwards played under 21 mins.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Wouldn't be opposed to Gillies but I'd like to call on Rittich this time.

Call it curiosity, given his Matt Murray like numbers since the start of last season..

I really like Dave Rittich, but come on—his AHL numbers are not "Matt Murray like."

[CaptainCrunch]

Watching the game, I couldn't help but be impressed by

Jankowski's vision, sure he skates well, he's a big body, he has a good without the puck game. But good smart players know where the puck is going and see the seams on the ice very well. He's got that good hockey IQ that makes him dangerous

Kulak He's extremely detail oriented, I've noticed that since he started playing. He's not a superstar skater, he's not a teeth rattling hitter, while he makes nice passes, he's not the guy to headman the puck out of danger. But he does the little things really well. He beat the force check in the Flames zone down low by making one step to his left after securing the puck and making the safe ring around behind the net. He doesn't take risks at all.

Overall, when Lack came in this team modified its game and locked it down. We can talk about 4 goals against, but really the ones against Lack were more about St Louis puck luck then anything else. But now the Flames will have to adapt to Lack not being Smith in terms of puck movement.

Bennett I've never questioned his work ethic, I have questioned a lot of his on ice mistakes to pressing and desperation, but the guy just works, and he seems to go to the right places in the offensive zone even when the pucks not going in for him. It will be interesting to see what he does going forward with a bit of confidence.

Ferklund I've always loved this kid because I think his skill set was a bit under rated, a lot of people saw him as that kid making 10 hits a game and being a face puncher with some skill. But unlike Johnny and other supremely skilled players, Ferland makes space for himself with his body position and his strength, but he has a savagely under rated set of hands and the ability to see the seams on the ice. Bob Probert was similar, in that he was an absolute physical beast who could destroy you and that kept coaches from really using his under rated offensive skills. Ferland is a great option in a league that is going to pocket enforcers who can play the game but stand up for team mates when needed. I would like to see him get into it a couple of more times and hit someone with his knockout punch because he has heavy hands.

Jagr Man, he is slow out there, but it doesn't matter because he has elite experience and an elite hockey mind, and when his line was struggling its because he was thinking the game so far ahead of them, now that they're getting on the same page and being able to anticipate what he will do its really effective. He's also great along the boards not just because he's heavy and deceptively strong, but because he's seen it all and knows the trips.

What I've loved about how this team has been built.

While teams like Edmonton draft based on skill set and probably fancy shoot out goals. the Flames seem to put the emphasis on hockey IQ and smarts. You can see when this team is on and playing well that they just out think other teams. We might not burn teams speed wise every night, this team is dangerous because they understand where the seams are and they understand where they need to go and they find other teams vulnerabilities.

I would like to see this team pick up its own zone play a bit though. The problem isn't positioning, or losing players, the problem is that they make one or two dramatic mistakes a night that ultimately end up in the net.

[lambeburger]

Can anybody enlighten me on what the posts were that were MOD edited?