[PGT] Flames lose another season opener

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

CF is corsi for, which includes shots, missed shots, and blocked shots.

20 corsis happened in the 4 ish minutes Brouwer was floundering about against mcdingus, but in terms of shots it was probably closer to 10 shots against. Still awful but not unbelievably awful.

Shots when McDavid was out against Brouwer was 11-1 in 4 minutes. https://www.naturalstattrick.com/gam...018&game=20003

Originally Posted by 868904

They didn't allow a goal because Smith bailed them out lots. The commentators even noted that the top line was defending the whole night against McDavid and that's why they weren't generating offense, this was coming from Louie Debrusk, a former NHL player and paid analyst who Oiler bias aside, is pretty good at his job.

The top line generated nothing, that's a fact. The fourth line is suppose to be outplayed by the likes of Connor McDavid.

The 3M line did nothing either. The top two lines are the ones who are paid the big bucks. if McDavid dominates against the 3rd and 4th lines, it means the Flames top two lines have to do something against the other lines.

Blaming it all on the 4th line or Tanner Glass is ridiculous. They got caught on the first goal and McDavid got a lucky bounce onto his stick. There were many other shifts where McDavid was dominating against the top two lines that Smith bailed them out on.

Flames got beat by the McDavid line except when they were against 3M. The 1st line was better than the Bennett/Stajan line, but still outplayed.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Other teams have beat Edmonton, we just refuse to gameplan around McDavid. It's like GG is too proud to just admit he's a game changer and have someone shadow him the entire game.

Who cares if it means we generate no offense for the 20 mins he's on the ice? Edmonton literally has no one else in their line up who are even remotely a threat. Smother McDavid. Have someone on him like white on rice. Every single second he's on the ice, shadow him. Even in the GD offensive zone.

You shut him down and they have nothing.

[automaton 3]

I can't believe I watched that entire game. Yuck.

Smith played great and held the team in it. Awesome to think our goaltending might finally be solidified.

McDavid's speed is something else. Playing against some of the top players in the world and he just has another gear.

Why, why why were the Flames rolling 4 lines against McDavid? Get Backlund and Gio out there against him every chance you get. This is a consistent issue I have with GG, changing on the fly and in-game adjustments don't seem to be his thing.

Gaudreau's passes were picked off many times. Not a great performance by him. Oilers seemed to be anticipating his moves.

The Flames' dumped it repeatedly with no forward support. Edmonton went D to D and moved the puck out. This couldn't have been the game plan?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Other teams have beat Edmonton, we just refuse to gameplan around McDavid. It's like GG is too proud to just admit he's a game changer and have someone shadow him the entire game.

Who cares if it means we generate no offense for the 20 mins he's on the ice? Edmonton literally has no one else in their line up who are even remotely a threat. Smother McDavid. Have someone on him like white on rice. Every single second he's on the ice, shadow him. Even in the GD offensive zone.

You shut him down and they have nothing.

No kidding. Be hard on him. Give him little shoves and whacks at every opportunity. If you get him mad he is off his game. Someone needs to be more of a #### disturber out there.

[troutman]

All ok if we win the last game in June.

[dirk diggler]

The Flames made the Oilers D look like the Canadiens of the late 70's.... I wonder if the flames will win any game against Edmonton only because McDavid is clearly in their head.... guy is a fantastic player though

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Neither. It has to do with playing a system that doesn't ask him to skate, make high skill plays, and push the tempo.



This is going to come across as a bit controversial but I would be more interested in Bennett replacing Monahan on line one than Ferland. Monahan and Gaudreau don't have that on-the-rush chemistry they used to because we don't play a high-risk rush style anymore. Bennett in this responsible style of game we do play is better suited to pushing the tempo and keeping Gaudreau involved. Ferland was not the problem on line one last night.

I agree with this. Gulutzan prefers the low risk 'get pucks deep' north south game. This system goes D to D and then fires it up the ice, then it gets chipped in. People got agitated with Hartley's stretch pass to chip but there isn't much difference.

When Brodie (and the forwards for that matter) were generating chances, he would skate the puck up and be that 4th attacker. This resulted in easy zone entries and setting up zone time. Brodie, or any D aren't carrying the puck leading the attack. Ever. It's neutered the abilities of the key guys on this team.

I'm not advocating a return to Hartley's defensive zone coverage but right now GG has the team not believing in it's ability to make plays, so they get pucks deep (and don't recover it). They need to preach making plays not getting pucks deep constantly. I'm not saying there aren't time when you have to dump it in but when the messaging is constantly dump it, players lose confidence to make plays.

Kopitar said this recently with regards to how they play after Sutter. He said they need to believe in their ability to hold onto the puck and make plays.

I recall a game in Chicago during Gaudreau's rookie year. All game long he was carrying the puck in, getting a feel for the puck, creating chances but late in the game he fell and Chicago went the other way to score the winner. After the game Burke told Johnny not to worry and keep holding onto the puck. Gaudreau is an off the rush playmaker.

Yes there might be the odd time when there is a turnover but you can't negate all the other times when it creates offense. Offensive players need to carry the puck, hold onto it and make plays. If they're constantly just deflecting pucks deep they never get into a rhythm or flow.

GG is constantly saying 'we have to play a certain way' and it sounds familiar to Brent Sutter's 'we have to play the right way' which means dump it in.

I'm also not saying fire the coach. It was a bad game and GG got this team into the playoffs last year. However the current system is lacking creativity and confidence, it showed in last year's down offensive number and it doesn't look any better. I think he just has to make a little adjustment and preach to these players that they need to trust their skills a little more.

[DiracSpike]

I'm worried about our team's compete level. Not in the sense that they don't care or try, because they do (maybe with the exception of Brouwer). But it just seems like they can never ratchet up the intensity in big games like the playoffs, or against the ducks, or against the Oilers.

Where was the fire last night? You can say it's only one game and that's true, but it's against a provincial rival, that has to count for something. It certainly seemed like the Oilers were fired up for that game. The team's losing, it looks like we might not win, hit somebody, throw some shots, chirp, show me anything. In addition to being our best player last night Smith was the only one who got in anyone's face.

I hate that McDavid plays for the Oilers and I hate giving him props but the one thing I can say about him unequivocally is he is 100% dedicated to scoring goals and winning hockey games. That's all he cares about and I think it's a big reason why these Oilers are so much better than the "lose by three goals but let's all go the Whyte ave to get wasted" grab-ass Oilers we were used to seeing. I don't think our skill young guys are like the Hall Oilers but I also don't think they're matching up with McDavid intensity and dedication wise. We need more from them, McD is gonna score on us, blow past Brodie and our other Dmen every game, but he's not a defenseman too and he doesn't play the whole game. We need to outscore the Oilers 4-2 or something like that if we want to win.

[Flash Walken]

I honestly don't know what to say to people who watched the game and thought it was a strategy to ice the puck or turn it over inside the blueline.

There were two teams on the ice, the flames we're dumping it in as a last ditch effort not to get brutally hemmed in. The oil absolutely dominated last night. It was maximum effort for flames forward to get the puck out if the zone let alone keep possession in the zone.

Dumping and chasing, winging pucks for neutral zone tips and generally chasing the play is the Hartley system, not Gulutzan. The panicking display we saw last night was neither, just what happens when a low skill slow team plays a big team with skill.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Other teams have beat Edmonton, we just refuse to gameplan around McDavid. It's like GG is too proud to just admit he's a game changer and have someone shadow him the entire game.

Who cares if it means we generate no offense for the 20 mins he's on the ice? Edmonton literally has no one else in their line up who are even remotely a threat. Smother McDavid. Have someone on him like white on rice. Every single second he's on the ice, shadow him. Even in the GD offensive zone.

You shut him down and they have nothing.

On some of those breakaways, if you know he’s going to beat you, why not just stop, a square for an open ice hit? Sure you might miss most of the time, but that’s not going to change the ultimate outcome - a breakaway. Land one though, and he’s probably playing a little bit slower for the rest of the game.

[northcrunk]

The Oilers D was not scared at all when a Flames player was rushing at them because they knew the Flames player was not going to hit them. FINISH YOUR CHECKS!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

On some of those breakaways, if you know he’s going to beat you, why not just stop, a square for an open ice hit? Sure you might miss most of the time, but that’s not going to change the ultimate outcome - a breakaway. Land one though, and he’s probably playing a little bit slower for the rest of the game.

It's as if his speed and skill make it difficult to hit him.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

How's the suicide watch going after that one?

This is why I avoid this forum after losses, especially to Edmonton. Rationality is out the window, and nobody can put anything into context.

Listen, I saw what I wanted to see last night.

That's a bit of a head scratcher.

Unfortunately I saw the game for what it was, a lackluster pathetic display to produce anything resembling good hockey outside of goaltending. Also last nights game was one of the most important games of the season, set the tone against your biggest rival, break their spirit get 2 points.

The most disappointing thing to me was how completely unprepared the Flames were. If we lost 3-2 in OT or even lost 3-0 but put 40+ shots on net and got beat by a better goalie, then you take the positives and move on. We got god level goaltending everything else was not NHL caliber.

[Heavy Jack]

I get the disappointment Zamler, I do but the over reacting here is at record levels and to call yesterday's game one of the most important in the season is a bit of a stretch. Whether we have had a good season or a bad season in the last decade the season opening game for us has been a stinker so to put as much stock into this one as some have been is ridiculous IMO.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The fact of the matter is that the Oilers execute much better than the Flames. That Oilers' D is nothing to write home about, but they have been consistently out-performing Calgary's D all of last season and then again last night.

Flames are constructed to be a defensively sound hockey club that can transition the puck quickly. I still see a tonne of defensive zone breakdowns, and stretches of getting hemmed-in. I see a tonne of poor passes to nowhere, or passes that seemed to me like terrible decisions that kept getting picked-off.

I don't know why this team can't play defence properly. Remember all the "This guy scored" pics that gave us hearty laughs for a few seasons from the Oilers? They managed to fix it completely last season, and have quickly become one of the better defensive teams in the league. How is Calgary not able to play solid defence yet?

I really haven't seen much of an improvement on D, even though on paper the Flames have without a doubt one of the best defense corps in the NHL.

That needs to change for this team to ever take that next step into becoming a contender.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's as if his speed and skill make it difficult to hit him.

Yes, but modern coaching has disencouraged trying that. What I’m saying, is that for McDavid specifically, perhaps the high risk, high reward play might be a better option to try, becasue the standard play isn’t going to work as often as you normally see it working.

[Rtown]

I saw everything I needed to see when Smith had to take on Maroon himself cuz none of the other pussies would muck it up. Took me back to the Kipper days when he'd get run and none of the country club boys would do anything about it. At least Smith has some balls. Maybe one of these days he'll snap and throw one of his own up against a wall like Rhettro did to Reggie.
Too many guys playing scared. Need some attitude in that lineup. Most of the forwards look too entitled like the were waiting for someone else to do the dirty work.

[Toonage]

There really isn't a way to game plan McDavid that doesn't leave you flat footed other than double coverage. Collapse behind the blue line and let him in so you can stay in front of him? Nope. Wait until he hits the neutral zone and try to stay with him as he enters? Nope.
Keep two guys on him exposing Draisaitl or Maroon or whoever? Might be the only way. But chances are he just leaves two of your players in the dust or they pull a Versteeg/Brouwer and run into each other.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Watching that game last night made me realize the Flames are slow. It is that, or they are playing lazy. They need some more speed in the lineup, and stat. The Flames also looked scared. They struggled to make simple plays, like getting the puck out of the zone or making a simple tape-to-tape pass because they were rushing everything. They need their skill players to play the skill game. They really were outclassed last night, in every way. Talbot had the easiest shutout he's ever going to earn, and that is all on the Flames, not on the play of the Oilers. That was just a pathetic performance by a team that was just not prepared for their opponent. This is a common refrain with the current brain trust behind the bench and something that needs to improve.

I have to echo many others and say the Brouwer experiment is over. He brings nothing that I thought and hoped he would bring to the team. He's slow, isn't physical, can't make basic plays, and refuses to go to the dirty areas. I appreciate he signed a retirement contract with the Flames, but he's got to stop playing like he's already retired. I think its time to move on from the Brouwer experiment. Waive him and hope someone bites. If that doesn't work, send him to the minors and buy him out when the window opens. He is not helping the team and holding back players that could.

One last comment, I would seriously be trading TJ Brodie right now. He still has value, but the way he's been playing is not helping the team. He kind of reminds me of Derek Morris back in the day. Had that one year where everyone thought he was going to be special, but he never put it together after that. I'd be willing to move him if we could address a weakness. Brodie, Ferland, Brouwer and Kylington/Andersson/Fox for Duchene, Zadorov, and Colborne. $10.65M in and $11.6M out. Colborne, the Brouwer replacement, is in the minors, so we can leave him there. We get a 1st line forward with speed, a defenseman to play on the 2nd pair, without really hurting our core. It would hurt, but I think it makes us better now and down the line.

[Scoutski]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Games like tonight make it really hard to be a fan of hockey.

The Flames came out with zero energy and zero care, and like only the Flames can do, they maintained that pathetic play for a full 60 minutes.

And then there's McDavid. This is what seriously makes me question my fandom in the NHL. The Oilers' fourth 1st overall pick in six years, and they suddenly get a generational talent. A complete difference maker that makes it seem as if there's nothing the Flames can possibly do to compete. To a team with fans like the Oilers.

The Flames looked scared, dumb, and stupid. More depressingly, they looked apathetic.

The Flames were also completely out-coached. There is absolutely no justifiable excuse for putting Brouwer out on the ice with under 2 minutes remaining and an empty net. He had been one of the worst players for the entire game (which is saying something), so it's no surprise that he's the one to make that blunder.

Sorry to call back to a first page post at this point, but this was my exact line of thinking last night. Theoretically if McDavid is as good as he was last night and takes the Oilers to a cup(s), how can I feel proud about the Flames never going 100% tank when the Oilers literally failed that hard into a player like that.

That said, I don't think the season is over or that we need major shake-ups, the Flames have been slow starters forever and as much as I hate it, I know they'll figure it out. TBH, I'm expecting them to go 0-3 to start but maybe then steady out into a playoff position after Christmas as they look to build toward the end of the season. Just gotta get through the pain here.