Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I really do believe Ken King as the lead on the Flames negotiating team has damaged the Flames position, at least in the eyes of the public (and several season ticket holders). Obviously his bosses disagree. I know I sound like a broken record on this point, but often times the personalities at the table do make a real difference to getting a deal done.

Couldnt agree more. I think the real issue is that Nenshi and King have more or less the same personality type and thats why they're butting heads.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I really do believe Ken King as the lead on the Flames negotiating team has damaged the Flames position, at least in the eyes of the public (and several season ticket holders). Obviously his bosses disagree. I know I sound like a broken record on this point, but often times the personalities at the table do make a real difference to getting a deal done.

He's the figurehead, but I doubt he is really leading much of anything on a big real estate deal like this.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

He's the figurehead, but I doubt he is really leading much of anything on a big real estate deal like this.

I think he is the lead guy Badger. From the few chats I have had with one of the owners it seems King is very much in charge of this project.

[Tyler]

They brought in Burke so King could focus 100% on the business and arena deals. I wouldn't call him a figurehead

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I really do believe Ken King as the lead on the Flames negotiating team has damaged the Flames position, at least in the eyes of the public (and several season ticket holders). Obviously his bosses disagree. I know I sound like a broken record on this point, but often times the personalities at the table do make a real difference to getting a deal done.

Nenshi isn't at the negotiating table though. Agreements such as these are almost certainly negotiated by senior staff (probably with some marching orders from the CAP based on his or her sense of what City Council would accept). Once an agreement is reached, it goes before Council for a vote. So I don't see how Nenshi's personality has much influence, if any, on the actual negotiations?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yes... it's very apparent that they're thinking is that the only "return" the city should get is smiles, rainbows, and dreams of colorful unicorns.

Let's incentivize the return the city gets:
"If the Flames win the Stanley Cup twice in the first five years we will waive property taxes for the life of the arena."

I'd say that would be a worthy "social and cultural" return.

[Flash Walken]

Has Manhattanboy assumed the astroturfing role now that Iamnotkenking has disappeared?

Posting constantly about how the owners opinion is not reflected in this negotiation, now assigning King responsibility for entirety of the project etc. Setting the stage with fans for King's eventual dismissal?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Let's incentivize the return the city gets:
"If the Flames win the Stanley Cup twice in the first five years we will waive property taxes for the life of the arena."

I'd say that would be a worthy "social and cultural" return.

That would be hilarious. Kind of like a Performance Bonus.

"Tell you what, every time you win the Cup we'll give you 5 years of free rent."

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Has Manhattanboy assumed the astroturfing role now that Iamnotkenking has disappeared?

Posting constantly about how the owners opinion is not reflected in this negotiation, now assigning King responsibility for entirety of the project etc. Setting the stage with fans for King's eventual dismissal?

don't forget the violin manhattanboy was playing to remind us how deep the roots of the owners are in the city, how much they give back and how much it would hurt them to have to leave.

that was a good one.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Locke

Couldnt agree more. I think the real issue is that Nenshi and King have more or less the same personality type and thats why they're butting heads.

If you put Nenshi and King in the same room, to work out a deal for the new arena, or fight, and you were the moderator and made this statement, they'd both punch you first.

Which makes your point valid.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

If you put Nenshi and King in the same room, to work out a deal for the new arena, or fight, and you were the moderator and made this statement, they'd both punch you first.

Which makes your point valid.

Bring it! I can take 'em!

I have it on good authority that I can best at least 175 5-year olds so I think I can take on a Mayor and a Newspaper-man!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Has Manhattanboy assumed the astroturfing role now that Iamnotkenking has disappeared?

Posting constantly about how the owners opinion is not reflected in this negotiation, now assigning King responsibility for entirety of the project etc. Setting the stage with fans for King's eventual dismissal?

That's a cheap shot.

[united]

I'm glad the events of the past few weeks have shown everyone throughout the city what a snake Ken King is. Us season ticket holders have been listening to the guy's bull####, and have been treated to his same body language, for a decade, if not more. It is completely shocking he is still around and involved in things.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's a cheap shot.

What is?

[Manhattanboy]

I have not suggested any incongruity between King and ownership as to their position. My view is that he deserves an F as to how he handled things last week. The Friday press conference was a debacle. If you are going to bring this out of the board room and into the media at least try to demonstrate some goodwill. I think it was GirlySports who asked why the Flames didn't simply issue a press release that they would be providing details as to their proposal this week, which in hindsight would have made much more sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Nenshi isn't at the negotiating table though. Agreements such as these are almost certainly negotiated by senior staff (probably with some marching orders from the CAP based on his or her sense of what City Council would accept). Once an agreement is reached, it goes before Council for a vote. So I don't see how Nenshi's personality has much influence, if any, on the actual negotiations?

It sounds like there's been very little "at the table" negotiating at all. Which is too bad.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is?

Accusing someone of astroturfing. That's bull#### and you know it. Just because someone has a different view of something than you does not mean you have the right to accuse them of trying to manipulate others into believing an obvious lie through unscrupulous means. If that's the level of behavior this issue has driven people to, then all is lost.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

Accusing someone of astroturfing. That's bull#### and you know it. Just because someone has a different view of something than you does not mean you have the right to accuse them of trying to manipulate others into believing an obvious lie through unscrupulous means. If that's the level of behavior this issue has driven people to, then all is lost.

You're welcome to review his post history if you'd like:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/search...archid=8899053

[Backlunds_socks]

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You're welcome to review his post history if you'd like:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/search...archid=8899053

The link is dead, but I did look over his last 100 posts. So? I don't see anything that looks like astroturfing. He has a different opinion than you. Get over it.