Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

Originally Posted by nik-

#blessed

lol, I still would like to hear and see what this man said

[MRCboicgy]

960 will have it on their website shortly. keep refreshing their page.

[Cappy]

EDIT: accidently quoted the wrong person:

Peterh

How the #### is it a gift compared to Quebec City or Edmonton?!

Why must we do a crappy deal like Quebec and Edmonton? Why must we compare.

The Flames should get nothing for a new arena. They are getting 183m. The property tax payment will effectively pay the bond rates.

Here you go, Flames. You get hundreds of million for providing an emotional benefit to a large minority of the city. Now go make millions more!

If that isn't a gift to you, then I never want to come to your birthday party...

[Flame On]

Fine King doesn't come across well, we get it.

But can it be disputed that the main crux of his point is that disconnect with what the Flames stadium/organization brings to the city and the owners desire that has some financial merit in an area the City wants to rebuild anyway.

I wish he would have just come out and said: yes the addition of a new stadium you want anyway, the infrastructure improvements and the whole package of the Flames with Jobs and city vitality is worth 33% in a hand out. (then maybe let it be known that there is room as to what that number looks like in terms of payback, and how its done.)

It feels to me its solely that last 1/3 that is the sticking point.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's clear the Flames end game is to try and get Nenshi out and get someone else in for a sweeter deal, and based off this week they failed spectacularly. Even most of the arena supporters are turned off by what King did this week, today especially. This week was nothing short of a debacle for the CSEC. I look forward to seeing Francis bootlick this one.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

New Era has consistently twisted himself into a pretzel to make this the city's fault no matter what , short of the city just giving the flames a new rink he basically thinks it's a bad idea. If that's his position then we have all heard enough.

Your replied to this twice?

[Flash Walken]

Man, if you think kings presser was about the financial breakdown I don't know ow what to say.

He spent the majority of his time talking about the CalgaryNext vision, numerous comparisons to the ice district, a mention of the Detroit district, their desire to be in the west village and having a development partner already on board to build up around the arena.

THIS IS ABOUT CALGARYNEXT

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

960 will have it on their website shortly. keep refreshing their page.

Well since it's the FAN:

"Ken King deftly tosses aside all doubt of benefits of CalgaryNEXT in masterful press conference in response to city's demand the team pays for 120% of desolate arena project."

[dammage79]

I don't know much about Civic politics and running a hockey team. But what I do know is King is a terrible choice to put in front of a microphone.

It gets to a point where no matter how honest or upfront you're being (which King is not let's make that perfectly clear) that people will just automatically tune you out or just for the sake of seeing your face just side against you. And I think after Calgary Next and this weeks fun, that's exactly what's happening.

Even if after Ive seen the Flames proposal I sided with the Flames, I don't think I'd support King

In the arena of public charisma, Nenshi is going to bury King just by letting King do all the talking. It's not even a fair fight.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's clear the Flames end game is to try and get Nenshi out and get someone else in for a sweeter deal, and based off this week they failed spectacularly. Even most of the arena supporters are turned off by what King did this week, today especially. This week was nothing short of a debacle for the CSEC. I look forward to seeing Francis bootlick this one.

I don't know how they thought this would be a good idea. The Flames are popular - they aren't nearly as popular as they think they are. Certainly not popular enough to try and hold a gun to the mayor's head a month before the election. Nenshi may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's difficult for your average voter to resent a man who doesn't want to rush headlong into a terrible arena deal a la most other places that do these publicly funded projects.

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

This ownership makes me not even want the flames to have full control over the arena. In fact, now I would like if the city controlled these things over these billionaires.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess that's fair ... let him be the target of disdain. But is that working? Don't see the club ownership getting a pass in this debate.

Either way the city had a better week than the Flames in the PR department in my mind.

I look at it as this:

City makes a response and the Flames don't want to let the City's characterization dominate the news cycle.
King holds a press conference, gets hit with a bunch of bullets, but takes over the front page.
King says 'just wait' and the Flames will offer their response next week - likely very early in the news cycle.

The Flames have flipped the negotiations from the boardroom into the public with the publication of their walking away. This decision isn't made recklessly. It's a calculated move.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Fine King doesn't come across well, we get it.

But can it be disputed that the main crux of his point is that disconnect with what the Flames stadium/organization brings to the city and the owners desire that has some financial merit in an area the City wants to rebuild anyway.

I wish he would have just come out and said: yes the addition of a new stadium you want anyway, the infrastructure improvements and the whole package of the Flames with Jobs and city vitality is worth 33% in a hand out. (then maybe let it be known that there is room as to what that number looks like in terms of payback, and how its done.)

It feels to me its solely that last 1/3 that is the sticking point.

But the City has put 1/3 on the table already (give or take the value of Saddledome demo). No repayment. No strings attached. All the Flames have to do is say "thank you".

[Manhattanboy]

I wondered in jest late last night whether CalgaryNEXT might be back on the table. Know what, it's back on the table.

And that presser was Sarah Palinesque.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I look at it as this:

City makes a response and the Flames don't want to let the City's characterization dominate the news cycle.
King holds a press conference, gets hit with a bunch of bullets, but takes over the front page.
King says 'just wait' and the Flames will offer their response next week - likely very early in the news cycle.

The Flames have flipped the negotiations from the boardroom into the public with the publication of their walking away. This decision isn't made recklessly. It's a calculated move.

Seems like a poor calculation.

[Par]

I think this is going to last a long time and if Nenshi win's(I hope not), than this will go on even longer.

[calgaryblood]

Wonder what the reason was for not releasing their proposal.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's clear the Flames end game is to try and get Nenshi out and get someone else in for a sweeter deal, and based off this week they failed spectacularly. Even most of the arena supporters are turned off by what King did this week, today especially. This week was nothing short of a debacle for the CSEC. I look forward to seeing Francis bootlick this one.

I get that King and the Flames are probably weary of dealing with Nenshi, and I can imagine they would welcome a change in the mayoralty, but given that not a single council member approved of their proposal how can they be so deluded as to think a new mayor will make for a better deal? In the end the mayor still has only one vote, and so far his "no" vote is not the sticking point.

[GGG]

You can see the frame work of the flames proposal pretty easily

178 ticket tax - flames
178 owners - flames pay over 25 years

178 Cash - City
180 million property tax subsidy
------------------------------------------
50/50

City still gives Land and infrastructure and Saddledome off ledger.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Wonder what the reason was for not releasing their proposal.

They don't have one.