Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

How many people regularly use the arena?

Whats regularly mean exactly?

Myself, I use it whenever there is an event there I wish to see.

That can mean a week between visits or it could mean several months. Really depends on the event.

I will say this though, I have travelled out of town for more events in the last number of years than I have attended at the dome because of all the events that have bypassed the Dome for whatever reason. All that money is not money I would have just spent here on something else instead either, which is why that argument makes zero sense to me.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Whats regularly mean exactly?

Myself, I use it whenever there is an event there I wish to see.

That can mean a week between visits or it could mean several months. Really depends on the event.

I will say this though, I have travelled out of town for more events in the last number of years than I have attended at the dome because of all the events that have bypassed the Dome for whatever reason. All that money is not money I would have just spent here on something else instead either, which is why that argument makes zero sense to me.

Ive been a Flames fan my whole life and watch every game but have only been to 2 games in my life because of the cost. And most of the people i know have rarely used to arena or nothing at all. People use stuff like the library or bridge and stuff regularly. The hard core Flames fans who go to games regularly does not make up a huge part of the city population yet everyone has to pay for it. My opinion but outside this board (filled with Flames fans) the majority of Calgarians I've noticed do not support funding for the arena. And with a new arena prices are gonna increase huglely and it will be more tougher to afford games. Im tired of billionares making us pay for their stuff than charging us ridiculous prices to use it.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

How many people regularly use the arena?

Not sure about regularly, but I think I heard King say about ~2,000,000 people go through the doors on an annual basis.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It is an interesting compromise, Bunk, but would go against most of what we know about the flames ownership group.

If anything they appear to want an increasingly smaller group of owners, not open it up to a bunch of random jabronis.

It would also open up their financials for public consumption and that is something the BOG definitely do not.want.

I for one believe that the Calgary Flames could benefit here and support the proposal of increasing the number of 'Random Jabronis' involved.

In fact, I like it so much that I would propose that we also open the bidding to 'Juggalos' although they are notoriously fiscally irresponsible and their understanding of basic concepts such as magnetism is well documented as lacking.

Go Team Jabroni/Juggalo.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Locke

I for one believe that the Calgary Flames could benefit here and support the proposal of increasing the number of 'Random Jabronis' involved.

In fact, I like it so much that I would propose that we also open the bidding to 'Juggalos' although they are notoriously fiscally irresponsible and their understanding of basic concepts such as magnetism is well documented as lacking.

Go Team Jabroni/Juggalo.

Faygo Coliseum

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Ive been a Flames fan my whole life and watch every game but have only been to 2 games in my life because of the cost. And most of the people i know have rarely used to arena or nothing at all. People use stuff like the library or bridge and stuff regularly. The hard core Flames fans who go to games regularly does not make up a huge part of the city population yet everyone has to pay for it. My opinion but outside this board (filled with Flames fans) the majority of Calgarians I've noticed do not support funding for the arena. And with a new arena prices are gonna increase huglely and it will be more tougher to afford games. Im tired of billionares making us pay for their stuff than charging us ridiculous prices to use it.

Whats a Library? I googled it, and my computer exploded....

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Not sure about regularly, but I think I heard King say about ~2,000,000 people go through the doors on an annual basis.

How many of those are the same people? I think is the point.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Not sure about regularly, but I think I heard King say about ~2,000,000 people go through the doors on an annual basis.

Surely that's visits to the Dome, the great majority of which are the same people visiting many times (ie Flames season ticket holders).

NHL hockey is expensive. Really expensive. Sometimes corporate tickets find their way into the hands of lower-level employees, but most of the people who attend Flames games are well-heeled. And with the cost of attending live music skyrocketing in recent years, it's increasingly confined to the affluent as well.

Don't kid yourself that entertainment at the Saddledome is anything but a rare treat for average Calgarians.

[Macho0978]

IMO the Flames can play hardball on this as I think a new arena benefits the city just as much as the Flames. Without any proof I would guess that hockey fans living between Edmonton and Calgary that are fans of different teams go to watch their team play the Oilers in Edmonton rather than Calgary. Mcdavid could play a part in that but so does the arena. This and almost every concert skips Calgary these days for Edmonton. This is a ton of out of town money being spent in Edmonton over Calgary and this could be a trend in other areas outside of hockey/music industry.

I'm from Saskatchewan and any friends I have that are fans of other teams are driving to Edmonton these days over Calgary to watch their teams play.

How has it affected the Flames? They still charge crazy prices and have only seen a very slight dip in attendance. It's basically business as usual but its only been a year since Rogers Arena has been open so maybe the City needs another year to see the obvious trend to continue

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Ive been a Flames fan my whole life and watch every game but have only been to 2 games in my life because of the cost. And most of the people i know have rarely used to arena or nothing at all. People use stuff like the library or bridge and stuff regularly. The hard core Flames fans who go to games regularly does not make up a huge part of the city population yet everyone has to pay for it. My opinion but outside this board (filled with Flames fans) the majority of Calgarians I've noticed do not support funding for the arena. And with a new arena prices are gonna increase huglely and it will be more tougher to afford games. Im tired of billionares making us pay for their stuff than charging us ridiculous prices to use it.

All understandable and defendable positions you take. Though I dont agree that you dont just not build something because its to expensive for some to use.

I have no use for and will never set foot in a library downtown, yet they have no problem dropping a massive amount of money on it. I have little to no use for a bridge across the river when one already existed either, but thats what a certain population wanted, so it happened.

Now we have another piece of infrastructure the entire community can use if they choose to, but it will come at a cost.

If that cost is to much then be prepared to lose the Flames for good. Be prepared to continue to see a good chunk of the artists bypass the city. Be prepared to hear from people elsewhere in Canada that our city is second rate at best. All that stuff will eventually happen without a new arena at some point. And that's fine as long as that's what people are prepared to accept.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Whats a Library? I googled it, and my computer exploded....

Perhaps you ought to have actually tried googling it

The Calgary Public Library (CPL) is a distributed library system featuring 18 branch locations including the Central Library.[1] It is the second most used system in Canada (after the Toronto Public Library)[2] and the sixth most used library system in North America.[3] This is despite the fact that the Calgary Public Library has one of the lowest per capita funding in the country, receiving as little as half the money of other Canadian public libraries. [4] [5] [6]

The reality is that library resources in Calgary are far more heavily used than anybody here seems to know or care to give it credit for.

[Ice_Weasel]

Personally, I think any argument that is based on "subsidizing billionaires" just comes across as spiteful and unconstructive. The success or lack thereof of the Flames ownership should not be the issue. Would people rather have the city partner with some of the gong show ownership groups in the US? Why do we vilify people in Canada for being successful...it really is embarrassing. And here's the real danger...vilify/over tax enough and they just leave (i.e Murray Edwards).

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

The reality is that library resources in Calgary are far more heavily used than anybody here seems to know or care to give it credit for.

The library is used by young families, the elderly, the poor, students, immigrants. So yeah, not exactly the core CP demographic.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The library is used by young families, the elderly, the poor, students, immigrants. So yeah, not exactly the core CP demographic.

Not true at all. You likely wont run into any Jabronis or Juggalos at the local Public Library, does that not then make said Library exclusive?

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Not sure about regularly, but I think I heard King say about ~2,000,000 people go through the doors on an annual basis.

The Saddledome is completely filled every 3 days? That is highly unlikely.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ice_Weasel

Personally, I think any argument that is based on "subsidizing billionaires" just comes across as spiteful and unconstructive. The success or lack thereof of the Flames ownership should not be the issue. Would people rather have the city partner with some of the gong show ownership groups in the US? Why do we vilify people in Canada for being successful...it really is embarrassing. And here's the real danger...vilify/over tax enough and they just leave (i.e Murray Edwards).

Again, it seems by my understanding that the sticking point with CSEC is that the City wants to get repaid and this is unacceptable.

I dont know why thats unacceptable. That part is hard to fathom.

CSEC is doing this to make money. Calgary doesnt want to get raped like Edmonton did.

But getting your money back is inherently part of the 'Loaning Process.' Nobody is loaning out money with no expectation of its return. Except Edmonton but we're not talking about those idiots right now.

Nobody should be out loaning money without expectation of repayment plus a little interest. If there are people out there doing that then perhaps they shouldnt be in charge of loans.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Perhaps you ought to have actually tried googling it



The reality is that library resources in Calgary are far more heavily used than anybody here seems to know or care to give it credit for.

Fair enough, more than nothing is something for sure. But that dosen't change the argument that only a slice of the population uses that service, which is the same argument being used against the arena. Regardless on how much you personally use and love the Library, its an apples to apples comparison. Which is what my original tongue and cheek post was insinuating.

[Ice_Weasel]

Originally Posted by Locke

Again, it seems by my understanding that the sticking point with CSEC is that the City wants to get repaid and this is unacceptable.

I dont know why thats unacceptable. That part is hard to fathom.

I don't notionally disagree. But the a good portion of the emotional support for the mayor is based on the financial capacity of the Flames ownership to pay for the arena out of their net own net worth. Just because they can doesn't mean they should....no more than Apple sells its phones for free because they can. The owners offer is a lot closer to the market arena deal than what the City is currently offering. Somewhere in the middle there is a deal to be done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

How many people regularly use the arena?

Anecdotal, but in a given year I probably see about 5 different kind of events there, some multiple times.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I have no use for and will never set foot in a library downtown, yet they have no problem dropping a massive amount of money on it. I have little to no use for a bridge across the river when one already existed either, but thats what a certain population wanted, so it happened.

Now we have another piece of infrastructure the entire community can use if they choose can afford to, but it will come at a cost that will line the pockets of a for profit business valued at close to $500 million and is owned by billionaires.

A couple changes to make it more accurate.