Amazon planning second headquarters with 50,000 jobs

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Guys, I know we all love this City, but look at this like free agency in the NHL. On average, few UFA's have Edmonton (ha!) or Calgary at the top of their list unless it's family related.

Tech talent is being fought over like Oil and Gas did in the boom years. Want a dog daycare on site? Sure! Want a bunch of couches instead of desks to "collaborate"? Sure!

The "glamour" of the destination will be a large part of that appear in this war for talent. Saying your office in San Fran has cachet. Boston / Chicago could probably pull that off though they lose points for weather.

Saying you're going to Calgary because of the great tax breaks that the corporation will get? Cheap rent and tax incentives are not not going to help the recruiting war. If we were locating a data center - maybe, but it'll be tall order to get 50,000 people to buy into taking a role in the Calgary location over Seattle....

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Guys, I know we all love this City, but look at this like free agency in the NHL. On average, few UFA's have Edmonton (ha!) or Calgary at the top of their list unless it's family related.

Tech talent is being fought over like Oil and Gas did in the boom years. Want a dog daycare on site? Sure! Want a bunch of couches instead of desks to "collaborate"? Sure!

The "glamour" of the destination will be a large part of that appear in this war for talent. Saying your office in San Fran has cachet. Boston / Chicago could probably pull that off though they lose points for weather.

Saying you're going to Calgary because of the great tax breaks that the corporation will get? Cheap rent and tax incentives are not not going to help the recruiting war. If we were locating a data center - maybe, but it'll be tall order to get 50,000 people to buy into taking a role in the Calgary location over Seattle....

I agree with all of this. Though the idea of it all doesnt tug on my heartstrings nor do i love Calgary or have a strong sense of what some call civic pride for any place. Nothing wrong with the city of Calgary is submitting a bid, but the reality is there is almost zero chance of winning. Frankly Calgary has as much of a chance as Edmonton. Toronto truly would be the only one that I can see getting consideration for any of the Canadian cities.

The only reason why i can see Amazon choosing Toronto(besides in reality it is the New York city of Canada) is to prove a political point. Amazon choosing Seattle initially, which is a fairly liberal city, could just give Trump the big FU and move it to an international city. Not just cause of the policies in the USA these days, but the ability to recruit international immigrants for specific positions in Canada will certainly be easier in the event the USA keeps trending towards its current path. Even that is a stretch. Toronto would be a great choice though if they did want to get away from the US.

I know if i had an option to move to a place like San Francisco, Chicago, Atlanta or Seattle, the idea of moving to Calgary/Edmonton would not be considered for a second. There just is very little to zero chance of any city in Alberta getting a sniff. Its just being realistic(not saying anyone truly believes Calgary has a chance as this thread is merely discussion). Any of the public statements in the media for this is purely for a feel good story. As mentioned by another poster no different than submitting a bid for the World cup or the summer olympics.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

f the public statements in the media for this is purely for a feel good story. As mentioned by another poster no different than submitting a bid for the World cup or the summer olympics.

It is different because Calgary doesn't meet the requirements to bid for either of those events.

Calgary meets the requirements for Amazon's RFP, as unlikely as it is.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

It is different because Calgary doesn't meet the requirements to bid for either of those events.

Calgary meets the requirements for Amazon's RFP, as unlikely as it is.

Sure, Calgary meets the requirements of the minimums of the RFP like thousands of hockey players in Calgary meet the minimum qualifications for playing in the NHL. I-Hate-Hulse was right on the money with the free agency metaphor. Calgary is an option, just not for those with other choices. Amazon will have its pick of cities from all over the United States. Calgary, as beautiful as it is, and as much as I have a soft spot for it in my heart, just can't compete.

[_Q_]

While Calgary probably isn't the ideal location for Amazon, I think it will really boil down to what incentives they receive. While it would be ideal for Amazon to go to a top tier city like Washington DC/Northern Virginia or Boston, those cities are kind of saturated with big tech companies. I'm not sure they'll provide any of the incentives that Amazon are looking for. I think this will probably go to a second tier city that is eager to attract a company like Amazon. Think places like Denver, Minneapolis, Columbus, Millwauke, Detroit, San Diego, Austin, San Antonio, Orlando, Raleigh, Charlotte and yes Calgary. Who gets this, probably will be the city to provide the most in terms of free land, tax breaks or other incentives. I do think Calgary has a chance to get this if they are very aggressive with their proposal. I doubt they will get it though, becuase one of the other cities I listed above will probably be more attractive to Amazon.

[calf]

I think Druh Farrell said it best - even if Calgary is a long shot, going through this exercise is great for the next opportunity like this that comes along.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

We live in a province where workers have endured notoriously poor rights and protections for decades, many companies have thrived here by treating their workers like garbage, it's not exactly a radical new concept.

However bad you may think workers in Alberta are treated, comparable workers have it worse in the U.S. And no, I'm not going to bother posting links, etc. pointing out the better working conditions Canadian employees enjoy compared to their American counterparts. It's as irrefutable as the difference in gun control in the two countries. If you want to educate yourself, the internet is a a great resource. If you want to learn about the culture at Amazon, the NYT article posted up-thread is a good start.

[Ozy_Flame]

Calgary is the kind of city that will bend over backwards for something like this, especially with the local / provincial and private support yearning for a chance to improve a sluggish economy. I have no doubts our proposal will be top notch. However, I do agree with Druh Farrell that it will be a dry run for future proposals, and probably an invaluable learning experience for future trips to Silicon Valley or the East Coast to lure companies over to Calgary.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

However bad you may think workers in Alberta are treated, comparable workers have it worse in the U.S. And no, I'm not going to bother posting links, etc. pointing out the better working conditions Canadian employees enjoy compared to their American counterparts. It's as irrefutable as the difference in gun control in the two countries. If you want to educate yourself, the internet is a a great resource. If you want to learn about the culture at Amazon, the NYT article posted up-thread is a good start.

Yes and no.

It really depends on the company you work for and it depends on the industry. Right now with the strong economy in the US, employers are having a tough time attracting qualified employees in some industries. My current employer for example gives me benefits that are comparable to what I used to get in Calgary with the added advantage of being able to work remotely some days. Yes that NYT article about Amazon seems horrific, but that's the exception in the US, not the norm.

[CliffFletcher]

The U.S. has the lowest paid vacation any developed country in the world, and the highest number of people who don't take their full vacation. It's also one of the only developed countries that doesn't mandate maternity/paternity leave. White collar professionals in the U.S. work considerably longer hours than their Canadian counterparts.

While most of the developed world is moving to flexible hours and work/life balance in order to make them attractive to employees raising families, the U.S. is still stuck in the old-school mentality that the path of advancement is to be seen sitting at your desk before your boss gets in and staying after he/she leaves. There's a reason most people in corporate Canada dread the prospect of being taken over by an American company. It will likely mean longer hours, cuts to staff, and a more ruthless corporate culture all around.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The U.S. has the lowest paid vacation any developed country in the world, and the highest number of people who don't take their full vacation. It's also one of the only developed countries that doesn't mandate maternity/paternity leave. White collar professionals in the U.S. work considerably longer hours than their Canadian counterparts.

While most of the developed world is moving to flexible hours and work/life balance in order to make them attractive to employees raising families, the U.S. is still stuck in the old-school mentality that the path of advancement is to be seen sitting at your desk before your boss gets in and staying after he/she leaves. There's a reason most people in corporate Canada dread the prospect of being taken over by an American company. It will likely mean longer hours, cuts to staff, and a more ruthless corporate culture all around.

That hasn't been my experience at all. In the 15 years I've worked at my employer, all the things you've mentioned have improved considerably. Vacation has improved, we've been encouraged to take it. Paternity/Maternity has improved immensely. Hours are more flexible, and most people are allowed to work remotely full time.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The U.S. has the lowest paid vacation any developed country in the world, and the highest number of people who don't take their full vacation. It's also one of the only developed countries that doesn't mandate maternity/paternity leave. White collar professionals in the U.S. work considerably longer hours than their Canadian counterparts.

While most of the developed world is moving to flexible hours and work/life balance in order to make them attractive to employees raising families, the U.S. is still stuck in the old-school mentality that the path of advancement is to be seen sitting at your desk before your boss gets in and staying after he/she leaves. There's a reason most people in corporate Canada dread the prospect of being taken over by an American company. It will likely mean longer hours, cuts to staff, and a more ruthless corporate culture all around.

This seems to be the experience my family and friends have in Texas.

A couple of my buddies transferred to Houston and they had to fight tooth and nail to keep their 3 weeks vacation. My cousin was back to work like a couple weeks after she had her baby. I was very surprised.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

However bad you may think workers in Alberta are treated, comparable workers have it worse in the U.S. And no, I'm not going to bother posting links, etc. pointing out the better working conditions Canadian employees enjoy compared to their American counterparts. It's as irrefutable as the difference in gun control in the two countries. If you want to educate yourself, the internet is a a great resource. If you want to learn about the culture at Amazon, the NYT article posted up-thread is a good start.

I agree that on average workers in the US have it worse than comparable workers in Alberta. What I don't agree with is your insinuation that it is due to employers choosing to treat them better here when the reality is our legislation does not give them any other option. There are Canadian companies who are just as number driven and cutthroat as Amazon, they just have a different set of rules and guidelines to operate under.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I agree that on average workers in the US have it worse than comparable workers in Alberta. What I don't agree with is your insinuation that it is due to employers choosing to treat them better here when the reality is our legislation does not give them any other option. There are Canadian companies who are just as number driven and cutthroat as Amazon, they just have a different set of rules and guidelines to operate under.

This!

I worked for some horrific employers in Canada that used to just find sleazy ways to work around the labour laws up there. I would take my current American employer 10 times out of 10 over those guys.

[Muta]

Didn't see this posted yet, but according to this Calgary Herald article (from September 8), the NDP have talked to Amazon already:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/co...ta-eyes-amazon

Bilous said the NDP government has been working to develop a relationship with Amazon over the last year and he has met with officials of the company at their Seattle head office.

He wouldn’t give details of the meeting but said it was part of a general, ongoing pitch to American tech companies by the government to tout Alberta’s merits as a potential site for offices or facilities.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Weitz

My cousin was back to work like a couple weeks after she had her baby. I was very surprised.

I think this is more to do with the government though, than the corporate America.

here in Canada - new parents can get up to 1 yr of EI and not lose their job. I am sure if most companies had their way Canada would be closer to the USA way than compared tot eh current setup

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Guys, I know we all love this City, but look at this like free agency in the NHL. On average, few UFA's have Edmonton (ha!) or Calgary at the top of their list unless it's family related.

Tech talent is being fought over like Oil and Gas did in the boom years. Want a dog daycare on site? Sure! Want a bunch of couches instead of desks to "collaborate"? Sure!

The "glamour" of the destination will be a large part of that appear in this war for talent. Saying your office in San Fran has cachet. Boston / Chicago could probably pull that off though they lose points for weather.

Saying you're going to Calgary because of the great tax breaks that the corporation will get? Cheap rent and tax incentives are not not going to help the recruiting war. If we were locating a data center - maybe, but it'll be tall order to get 50,000 people to buy into taking a role in the Calgary location over Seattle....

Calgary has to sell Amazon on tax breaks / incentives etc.

It's one of the best cities to live in the world. end of discussion.

Amazon has to sell employees on moving to Calgary - they need to sell them using chairs and weird office spaces, not Calgary.

I imagine most would chomp at the bit to work for Amazon, whether in Calgary or Indianapolis.

50,000 well paying white collar jobs can have a huge effect on the desirability of a city.

[taco.vidal]

Amazon likely knows where it wants to go. Then they make an RFP that their top choices will be able to meet. Amazon then lets the local governments duke it out falling over themselves to give Amazon tax breaks and incentives.
The arent cities that are going come out of the blue onto Amazon's radar here. So many cities make no sense at all yet their citizens seem to have hope because of this open RFP. Its crazy to read the news on the amount of buzz this has created in NA.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by calf

I think Druh Farrell said it best - even if Calgary is a long shot, going through this exercise is great for the next opportunity like this that comes along.

Absolutely, I think this is a viable exercise even if just for the optics and building long-term momentum in terms of attracting others. It would be great if Calgary could at least get on some sort of public short list by Amazon, or be mentioned in US/Canadian media. It may not mean that Amazon is coming here, but it could signal to other companies that we're a viable option for things other than traditional O/G.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Absolutely, I think this is a viable exercise even if just for the optics and building long-term momentum in terms of attracting others. It would be great if Calgary could at least get on some sort of public short list by Amazon, or be mentioned in US/Canadian media. It may not mean that Amazon is coming here, but it could signal to other companies that we're a viable option for things other than traditional O/G.

I suspect that one Canadian City will make the short list if only to threaten Trump. Then optically they can say they chose not to go to Canada because they wanted to save American jobs.