Israel does it again

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Looger

no i'm not.

many settlers are of the EXTREME variety, and take potshots at palestinian children miles away while they're climbing olive trees foraging for food.

what our media calls 'time of relative peace and quiet' means that no israelis are dying.

Which is a horrible and despicable act....that happens on both sides of that tumultuous border.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Which is a horrible and despicable act....that happens on both sides of that tumultuous border.

agreed.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Looger

no i'm not.

many settlers are of the EXTREME variety, and take potshots at palestinian children miles away while they're climbing olive trees foraging for food.

what our media calls 'time of relative peace and quiet' means that no israelis are dying.

Do you have any proof of what you are saying? If that is the case...it is wrong....but it is no different then Hama shooting rockets willy nilly into Israeli territory.

Like was said earlier...they are BOTH to blame.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Looger

agreed.

Also...was it the "military" doing this? Or some crazy ******* that can be labeled as a criminal, like those two wing nuts out in DC a few years back.

Show me some evidence of this, then I can make a more acurate assesment.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Do you have any proof of what you are saying? If that is the case...it is wrong....but it is no different then Hama shooting rockets willy nilly into Israeli territory.

Like was said earlier...they are BOTH to blame.

fine, they are BOTH to blame, haven't claimed otherwise, ANYWHERE.

but, guess what.

one 'side' started ALL of this.

one 'side' started resettling by force.

our guilty western societies tell us in school that it was wrong when our countries did it.

our news tells us that this all started in 1948 when 'the arabs' refused to acknowledge israel and attacked.

i'm never, ever going to put more blame on those that simply fight back.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Looger

fine, they are BOTH to blame, haven't claimed otherwise, ANYWHERE.

but, guess what.

one 'side' started ALL of this.

one 'side' started resettling by force.

our guilty western societies tell us in school that it was wrong when our countries did it.

our news tells us that this all started in 1948 when 'the arabs' refused to acknowledge israel and attacked.

i'm never, ever going to put more blame on those that simply fight back.

Really? I thought one side attacked another side to destroy them....got there asses whooped and then wanted their land back after they started a war?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Also...was it the "military" doing this? Or some crazy ******* that can be labeled as a criminal, like those two wing nuts out in DC a few years back.

Show me some evidence of this, then I can make a more acurate assesment.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Settler_Violence/

http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

news report, and some local commentary on B'Tselem:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1236010.stm

A report by B'Tselem says six Palestinians have been killed by settlers during the last six months of unrest in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but that only two of the deaths are being investigated.

It follows a United Nations inquiry's finding that the Israeli army had also used "excessive force" against Palestinians.
Since the Palestinian uprising began in late September, the report says, Jewish settlers have stoned Palestinians' cars, rioted in their towns and villages - setting fire to at least one mosque - and shot and beaten them. "The violence occurs against the background of leniency and prolonged impotence of the Israeli law enforcement authorities," it says.
...
Yehoshua Mor-Yosef, a Jewish settler spokesman, said the settlers were angry that B'Tselem had not looked at months of Palestinian violence against Israelis.
"We are outraged that B'Tselem thought it right to make a special report on the Palestinian victims and did not do a similar report on the Israeli victims," he said.
...

Ephraim Sneh, the Israeli Transport Minister ands a former Deputy Defence Minister, acknowledged that more could be done to enforce the law.
"It is true that small groups of extremist settlers are waging violence," he told Israeli army radio. But he added that it was "unfair to make generalisations and accuse the 200,000 settlers of the incidents presented in the document".

not ALL settlers, in fact small numbers of them, but clearly there is a problem with spontaneous and tolerated violence on both sides.

it's important simply to acknowledge that it isn't just israel's military taking liberties here.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Thanks for those sites. You are right...it is both sides...and a small number on both sides. I just din't think it was fair that you posted "they did it for the fun of it" remark. Which I think you agree. They didn't do it for the fun of it.

[Maserati]

cycle of violence over and over

[Vulcan]

A hundred years from now we'll look back and wonder how we could support the Israelis in their systematic purge of the Palestinians. Kind of reminds me of the American war against the Apaches and other natives. It's not fair to just single out the Yanks when they learned their lessons from the English, Spanish, French, Portugese, etc.

This is the facetious part.
Amazing what you can do when God is on your side and the others are less than human. We have to remember though that god gave that land to Moses 4000 years ago so the Arabs better get lost.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

A hundred years from now we'll look back and wonder how we could support the Israelis in their systematic purge of the Palestinians. Kind of reminds me of the American war against the Apaches and other natives. It's not fair to just single out the Yanks when they learned their lessons from the English, Spanish, French, Portugese, etc.

This is the facetious part.
Amazing what you can do when God is on your side and the others are less than human. We have to remember though that god gave that land to Moses 4000 years ago so the Arabs better get lost.

Holy cow...after all we just discussed about the issue being about both sides you fly in and talk about how the Israelis are systematically purging their lands like they did in the New World. Completely unbelievable.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Looger

until people figure out that the terrorism practiced by palestinian arabs against israelis, and before that jewish settlers in palestine, is the only possible response by an occupied / colonized population to the acts of terror perpetrated against them since the zionist movement started settling palestine, then people will scratch their heads forever on 'where all this hate' comes from.

pretty simple math.

action, reaction.

most westerners are only aware of the reaction, and we're very ignorant of the action.

Phew... So Ghandi had it all wrong?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Holy cow...after all we just discussed about the issue being about both sides you fly in and talk about how the Israelis are systematically purging their lands like they did in the New World. Completely unbelievable.

Yeah, now it's about both sides, just as it was about both sides when the Natives started fighting back. I'm just reminding you who started it in the last century and why.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Well I'm of the opinion that if the Palestinians stopped kidnapping or suicide attacks or any other act the Israelis wouldn't be doing anything to them. I can't think of a time when there has been a lull in this ongoing conflict where it wasn't started back up by someone other than the Israeli's.

You have a government in power whose stated objective is to erase Israel from the map --- the Israeli's have the high moral ground over that anytime, everyday and always.

And Israel wants to erase the palestinians off the face of the planet.

You think they have moral high ground? That's total BS. You support brutal occupations of other nations territories? Sounds like it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And Israel wants to erase the palestinians off the face of the planet.

You think they have moral high ground? That's total BS. You support brutal occupations of other nations territories? Sounds like it.

They do?? OK then.