White Poppies

[return to the red]

what do you guys think?

personally It's not a bad idea but I don't think they should be sold nor should they get the media coverage during the time red poppies are being sold.

I can understand why the Legion is ****ed

[JiriHrdina]

Not a bad idea, but horrible timing.

[octothorp]

I'm not familiar with this issue... link?

[Agamemnon]

For those who aren't in the know...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Poppy

I think they pick this time on purpose... its not a coincidence.

[jolinar of malkshor]

They need to choose a different month. Why a poppy? Why can't they use a white dove?

[Agamemnon]

White Poppy - origins

The idea of an alternative poppy dates back to 1926, just a few years after the red poppy came to be used in Britain. A member of the No More War Movement suggested that the British Legion should be asked to imprint 'No More War' in the centre of the red poppies and failing this pacifists should make their own flowers.

In 1933 the Co-operative Women's Guild produced the first white poppies to be worn on Armistice Day (later called Remembrance Day). The Guild stressed that the white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the women lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers. The following year the Peace Pledge Union joined the CWG in the distribution of the poppies and later took over their annual promotion.

[Hack&Lube]

How about we all just eat Poppy seed muffins? Yum Yum. Make muffins, not war.

[Igottago]

I'd wear both. Actually that white one is pretty ugly. I'll stick with the red one.

[Thunderball]

I think its a pretty underhanded thing to do. They are piggybacking off a very important and sombre occasion to further their agenda. People are gonna buy the white one thinking it means the same thing. I'd be very upset if I was the legions and I'd definitely pursue legal action.

Remembering sacrifice and advocating pacifism are almost conflicting statements in themselves. You are essentially saying, lest we forget, and they should never have been there cause all war is wrong.

If you want to advocate pacifism, do it at a different time.

[Dion]

It's an insult to all war vets. They should have chosen another symbol for their purpose. The dove of peace would have been a better choice.

Personaly if I saw someone distributing those white poppies i'd give that persona piece of my mind!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I think its a pretty underhanded thing to do. They are piggybacking off a very important and sombre occasion to further their agenda. People are gonna buy the white one thinking it means the same thing. I'd be very upset if I was the legions and I'd definitely pursue legal action.

Remembering sacrifice and advocating pacifism are almost conflicting statements in themselves. You are essentially saying, lest we forget, and they should never have been there cause all war is wrong.

If you want to advocate pacifism, do it at a different time.

Originally Posted by Dion

It's an insult to all war vets. They should have chosen another symbol for their purpose. The dove of peace would have been a better choice.

Personaly if I saw someone distributing those white poppies i'd give that persona piece of my mind!

Those were my thought until I saw Agamemnon's post above listing the origins of the white poppy. I still think the group distributing them is acting a bit shady, but there is a long history so I can't fault them out of hand.

[Agamemnon]

Meh, I don't see what the issue with supporting Pacifism is. Buying a red poppy on Remembrance Day doesn't make you any better of a person then buying a white one. The piece I quoted says that many of the original founders were women who lost their husbands/brothers/sons in the Great War, I don't see how supporting their ideals is disrespecting the soldiers who died there.

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to find that soldiers who survived the insane horrors of that war would also support Pacifism, that conflict was a nightmarish reminder of what happens when nations go to war. It wasn't a glorious conflict, it was an action that created great pain and suffering for those who participated, they fought 'the War to end all Wars' so that future generations wouldn't have to.

I don't see the conflict in wearing either, or both.

[Robbob]

the thing I don't like is these poppies come out during the main funding run for the vets. Money collected from the red poppies go to the vets, money from the white go back to the group.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Those were my thought until I saw Agamemnon's post above listing the origins of the white poppy. I still think the group distributing them is acting a bit shady, but there is a long history so I can't fault them out of hand.

There's history to it, sure... but its still an insult, despite them saying its not intended to be. Its akin to myself calling someone else ignorant... but not really meaning to insult them.

Plus, if the idea wasn't condescending and insulting to veterans, it would more than likely appeared on the red poppy itself back in the 1920s.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The piece I quoted says that many of the original founders were women who lost their husbands/brothers/sons in the Great War, I don't see how supporting their ideals is disrespecting the soldiers who died there.

From the Herald yesterday; they said that the white poppies were to remember the civilians killed in war.

For me the fact that the red poppy was here first; is a fundraser that helps out our veterans, and happens to be a registered trademark (or something registered anyways), I say the white one at the same time as the Legion's poppy drive is in poor taste.

Add to that the white ones are sold in retail stores; most of the time this involves some sort of profit for the store selling them.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Meh, I don't see what the issue with supporting Pacifism is. Buying a red poppy on Remembrance Day doesn't make you any better of a person then buying a white one. The piece I quoted says that many of the original founders were women who lost their husbands/brothers/sons in the Great War, I don't see how supporting their ideals is disrespecting the soldiers who died there.

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to find that soldiers who survived the insane horrors of that war would also support Pacifism, that conflict was a nightmarish reminder of what happens when nations go to war. It wasn't a glorious conflict, it was an action that created great pain and suffering for those who participated, they fought 'the War to end all Wars' so that future generations wouldn't have to.

I don't see the conflict in wearing either, or both.

Glorious or frivolous, it doesn't matter. World War 2 in particular taught the world that sometimes you absolutely must go to war and defend one's nation, allies and principles. Anyone who tells you World War 2 shouldn't have been fought (unless they say the conditions should never have existed, see: Treaty of Versailles), then they are beyond help. When you query veterans of the Second World War, they'll tell you the horrors of conflict and how it should not have to come to this, but they'll also tell you how important it was to fight, how it did come to the point of conflict, and how what they had to do should never be trivialized and forgotten.

To me, the red poppy represents duty and valour in unavoidable conflict. Some conflicts are definitely more avoidable than others, but anything that diminishes that is in poor taste, especially at this time of year.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Glorious or frivolous, it doesn't matter. World War 2 in particular taught the world that sometimes you absolutely must go to war and defend one's nation, allies and principles. Anyone who tells you World War 2 shouldn't have been fought (unless they say the conditions should never have existed, see: Treaty of Versailles), then they are beyond help. When you query veterans of the Second World War, they'll tell you the horrors of conflict and how it should not have to come to this, but they'll also tell you how important it was to fight, how it did come to the point of conflict, and how what they had to do should never be trivialized and forgotten.

I think technically the poppy originates as a remembrance of WWI... I'm sure all wars in which Canadians (and other nationalities fought) are now included, but you've got a lot of WWII stuff in there, that wasn't its origin. I also don't think people who wear white poppies are FOR trivializing and forgetting either war, if you ask them. They're probably so sickened by the great human cost of these conflicts that they don't want to see them happen ever again, something I'd assume they'd have in common with veterans... no?

To me, the red poppy represents duty and valour in unavoidable conflict. Some conflicts are definitely more avoidable than others, but anything that diminishes that is in poor taste, especially at this time of year.

I don't see how wearing a white poppy diminishes the contribution soldiers/civilians made to these wars. If you wear a white poppy are you 'worse' than wearing no poppy? Cause I see a hell of a lot of people out there with no poppy of either colour on... have you complained about them on this Board?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I think technically the poppy originates as a remembrance of WWI... I'm sure all wars in which Canadians (and other nationalities fought) are now included, but you've got a lot of WWII stuff in there, that wasn't its origin. I also don't think people who wear white poppies are FOR trivializing and forgetting either war, if you ask them. They're probably so sickened by the great human cost of these conflicts that they don't want to see them happen ever again, something I'd assume they'd have in common with veterans... no?


I don't see how wearing a white poppy diminishes the contribution soldiers/civilians made to these wars. If you wear a white poppy are you 'worse' than wearing no poppy? Cause I see a hell of a lot of people out there with no poppy of either colour on... have you complained about them on this Board?

Well, it definitely originated out of WW1, no question. But I definitely believe WW2 really raised its prominence, as that was seen as the greatest conflict against the greatest threat the world had ever known. WW1 was more or less an inevitable scrap between the powers of Europe.

I don't think people who buy these poppies are intentionally trivializing or forgetting the requirements that caused conflict to arise. What these things do though, is send mixed messages. To me, the definition of pacifism is the absense of conflict, regardless of utility. No one wants war, every sane person is horrified by what it produces, but one has to be careful to express that in a way that does not, directly or indirectly, diminish what unquestionably had to be done (at least in WW2's case, there are some arguments against WW1, better ones against Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc.)

I think everyone should wear a red poppy... I think its concerning that people don't, even if they didn't lose a relative in either major conflict. I didn't lose anyone, hell, I come from Italian and German roots... but there was merit in the sacrifice, my grandfather served in the British Army, and I am Canadian... I proudly wear a poppy.

Does wearing a white poppy make someone a bad person? No. I think what it tries to signify has merit in the idea that war should not ever be necessary, though it sometimes is. I think selling the white one right now in competition with, and without affilliation with the red poppy is wrong.

[Agamemnon]

Fair enough... I guess I just don't see how the white poppy diminishes the memory of those who died for our (and others) country. Its more the way you choose to remember it, as a lesson to be learned that war is a horrific waste of life, or just to remember the brave sacrifices of the soldiers. To me its just different ways of remembering the same principles, different emphases.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by ken0042

For me the fact that the red poopy was here first;