Why are University Campuses against Men's Resource Centres?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by peter12

This is garbage ad hominem.

Is he making some sort of argument by calling me a child or?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Its funny because its true. There's a ton of hate right now directed towards white CIS males especially in universities, both by academics and student bodies.

Just curious, but what university do you go to?

When I was in school (late 90's, early 00's) there was all sorts of yammering in the media about how even mentioning god or Jesus was not allowed in university anymore. Because of political correctness, of course.

Since I was at a liberal arts school at the time, I knew this was nonsense. I have to wonder if the same thing is happening now. That same thing being "anger at what happens on campuses without actually knowing what goes on there".

Being a white CIS male who hasn't been on a campus in more than a decade, I haven't felt the hate out in the real world. A little insight from an insider is all I'm looking for.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Sorry dude I'll let you get back to your intricate dance around not explicitly stating you hate non-subservient women, but implying it.

What in the actual ####?

Dude, maybe you could drop the hostility level to an 11? Perhaps you could use a male support center to deal with some of your misplaced anger?

[PsYcNeT]

The truth is pain.

[icecube]

Fighting against patriarchy & white supremacy, is not the same thing as hating white cis males. Taco Vidal and his ilk are the real "snowflakes".

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The original tweet was from a parody/satire account specifically designed to make fun of identity politics and the left, and 99.9% of all interactions with the tweet are people laughing at how ridiculous it is.

That's the kind of emerging thinking behind alt-right trolls, not behind the left. Sometimes I wonder if anyone looks into absolutely anything before they share it, instead of just "this appears to confirm my POV - LIKE + SHARE + COMMENT."

It is a funny charicature though. A little sad that some people on the right are so easily spoon fed this stuff as though it's real. The line "if it's on the internet it must be true!" is actually only funny if you're in on the joke, not the inspiration behind it.

Too be fair I see it a quite a bit from the other side too. Some ridiculous neck beard will spew some horrendous misogyny and it will be carted out as proof that all conservatives are ####lords.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by icecube

Fighting against patriarchy & white supremacy, is not the same thing as hating white cis males. Taco Vidal and his ilk are the real "snowflakes".

So what is my ilk?

[rubecube]

I think the answer was posted earlier in the thread but the reason these groups tend to be against things such as "men's groups" is because the groups are often thinly-veiled attempts to somehow "expose" the hypocrisy of th existence of women's groups, with very little effort or intention put into addressing the issues or supporting one another.

We actually had no problem starting one at UVic and the "feminist" group were actually a great source of support and resources for a bunch of dudes who didn't really know what we were doing.

This thread really isn't much different either. How many people in here actually care about these so-called men's issues and actively work to dismantle the problematic structures that are the causes for a lot of them? How many get involved politically or support the notion of more public funds being used to support more mental health facilities for men?

It's all well and good to say you're in support of these things but someone actually needs to step up and take the reigns.

[Mr.Coffee]

^^I actually don't know much about men's problems, so I was hoping to read more about it in here to be honest. Regardless it's actually been a pretty interesting discussion to read, crazy how smart some of the people who post here are.

Psycnet what do you mean when you state 'the truth is pain'? I'm not sure I followed that.

[TorqueDog]

... sorry, how am I just now finding out that there is a new Wolfenstein game being released?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

This is garbage ad hominem.

This isn't Cliff's rodeo on this topic, and he often comes across that way. Just look at his posts in this thread alone, devoid any specifics or examples and full of generalizations and misrepresentations. I've asked him the past to cite some feminist literature, writers, or thinkers that he can use to backup his claims about the ideology, and the best he can usually do is post some links to xojane or something similar that is basically a factory for the worst of the worst think pieces. Other times he's linked to some articles that have already confirmed his views on the topic by taking select quotes and printing them out of context or demonstrating that their indicative of the movement as a whole.

I don't think that people need to thoroughly engage with source material in depth or anything because this is a message board and not a thesis, but it's intellectually lazy (and not very liberal) to write-off an entire movement based on the rantings of fringey scenesters.

[rubecube]

I'd also add that while I often don't agree with the conclusions of many feminists, the debates they're trying to have are important and are often dismissed as petty or irrational or with the classic "not all men" stuff.

[ToewsFan]

Maybe I'm old school, but I don't honestly understand why society would be so opposed to a Men's Resource Centre when there are tons of Women's, Aboriginal, Youth, etc. Centres out there. I actually went to one of these centres while dealing with some personal issues in a different city, which helped me out at the time. I don't know why some misinformed people have this outdated view that it's a centre for angry males who are looking at oppressing women.

In Western Culture, Men are taught to "toughen it out" and "deal with it." How well has that worked out in North America? Maybe contact the families of Rick Rypien, Derek Boogaard, or Wade Belak and tell them Men's resources are not needed. If anyone bothered to read the article, a women wanted to take her practicum at a Men's Rsource Center, since she was abused by her father, and said it may have prevented the abuse if he had somewhere to turn to get help or emotional support. She was told by Ryerson University that the group was more or less misogynistic and given a coloring book for abuse victims. Obviously having a resource centre is not going to cure everything, but it can be helpful in prevention of suicides, drug abuse, domestic violence, and other issues that Men with problems go through.

People are people. We all have problems and living in a first world country, we should be making society a better place. This should not be about politics. It should be about what is in the best interests of the public interest. It's just sad to read about how institutions of higher learning, of all places would be so paranoid and misinformed about something that would be of benefit to society.

[JiriHrdina]

I think this is a complicated issue. My observations would be
- There is a lot of help available. It may not be packaged around being for men specifically but depending on the issue you need help with there is help.
- I don’t disagree that there are “men’s issues”. The suicide rates are scary. Most of us probably know someone who has taken their life, and the majority of those I would guess are men. As a male, I am aware that I was very fortunate to live where I do, in the time I do and I’m not ignorant of how lucky that is. But that doesn’t men can’t suffer from serious problems or need help
- One of the challenges though is that any organization packaged around “men’s health” attracts some men who really are looking for a place to validate their beliefs that can be quite hateful towards feminism and women. The sad fact is these men need help too. They likely have been hurt a great deal in their life, but the type of help that men’s rights groups provide isn’t what they need, as that can only serve to validate their misplaced feelings and blame. They need real help. Most men that I’ve known that have become involved with men’s groups do not have healthy views of women or frankly men. Not all. But a lot of them.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think the answer was posted earlier in the thread but the reason these groups tend to be against things such as "men's groups" is because the groups are often thinly-veiled attempts to somehow "expose" the hypocrisy of th existence of women's groups, with very little effort or intention put into addressing the issues or supporting one another.

So I did indeed watch the red pill documentary, primarily because it has been opposed so actively by many very outspoken feminists. Specifically because I saw an interview given by a U of C professor about it who really piled on about it. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ties-1.4016680 has the video of the interview if interested)

She clearly did not watch it herself, yet vehemently opposed it on grounds that are ridiculous if you did watch it. I was honestly amazed that she did such an interview that was so wildly off base so unashamedly.

The actual documentary was pretty interesting, had some good points and I'm sure its fair share of weaknesses. I didn't agree with all of it and I recognize that some of the leaders on the mens side are probably not perfect or great people (which doesn't really invalidate an argument like Psycnet would have you believe). Was quite shocking that this was a video that received so much criticism.

I guess my point is: I agree that something should not be based on discrediting another group/system. Everything should have its own merits and reasoning backing it up. I think that there is actually room for a mens rights movement, one that doesn't seek to root out or discredit feminism as a whole. There doesn't have to be a singular solution. Just providing a counterpoint to the idea that the mens groups only exist to discredit feminism...crazies and radicals on both sides here. The mens rights people might settle down if they aren't always on the defensive side of the battle too. Banning of screenings and protests like the U of T one are a black mark.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

- One of the challenges though is that any organization packaged around “men’s health” attracts some men who really are looking for a place to validate their beliefs that can be quite hateful towards feminism and women.

You will find the exact same people on the opposite end of the coin. The truth is that there are many more moderate people on both ends but one is always painted as the extreme end.

[ToewsFan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think this is a complicated issue. My observations would be
- There is a lot of help available. It may not be packaged around being for men specifically but depending on the issue you need help with there is help.
- I don’t disagree that there are “men’s issues”. The suicide rates are scary. Most of us probably know someone who has taken their life, and the majority of those I would guess are men. As a male, I am aware that I was very fortunate to live where I do, in the time I do and I’m not ignorant of how lucky that is. But that doesn’t men can’t suffer from serious problems or need help
- One of the challenges though is that any organization packaged around “men’s health” attracts some men who really are looking for a place to validate their beliefs that can be quite hateful towards feminism and women. The sad fact is these men need help too. They likely have been hurt a great deal in their life, but the type of help that men’s rights groups provide isn’t what they need, as that can only serve to validate their misplaced feelings and blame. They need real help. Most men that I’ve known that have become involved with men’s groups do not have healthy views of women or frankly men. Not all. But a lot of them.

Personally, I became really turned off of Men's Rights Groups. I actually became aware of these groups on Facebook or other social media, when Earl Silverman committed suicide in 2013. The amount of hatred and venom towards women in general was scary, and made me lose interest really quickly. I'm positive that some men who use these Men's Resource services do harbor an unhealthy amount of hatred towards women, but in my experience, they are in the small minority, and it was wise to just let them be, and not really engage with them. Besides, the purpose of these groups is to learn to better control and channel anger, and better oneself, not blame women in general.

[PsYcNeT]

I like how you guys keep framing it like women are now treated truly equal to men, or even that the pendulum has swung even further.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by ToewsFan

In Western Culture, Men are taught to "toughen it out" and "deal with it." How well has that worked out in North America? Maybe contact the families of Rick Rypien, Derek Boogaard, or Wade Belak and tell them Men's resources are not needed. Obviously having a resource centre is not going to cure everything, but it can be helpful in prevention of suicides, drug abuse, domestic violence, and other issues that Men with problems go through.

I think boys in school are being taught to move away from that way of thinking. There are some benefits to the old way of thinking though.

20 years ago my friends mother was one of the directors at the Mustard Seed. Lots of interesting stories. She told me that there were usually about twice as many male clients as female. Then she told me that despite having way more resources available, a new female client is about three times more likely to stay homeless than a new male client.

Why is that? How can anyone really know for sure? But her thought on it was this. When a man becomes homeless he will usually dig himself out of the hole he has dug himself into. He knows that nobody is going to bail him out. They would take the free steel toed boots and usually would be gone in about a month. Whereas as the female clients were more likely to do nothing more than talk about how they much have been abused and hope that somebody would come rescue them.

I really think that most times the best solution to a problem is "tough it out" and most importantly "deal with it". How well has that worked out in North America? It's not perfect but all in all I'd say it worked out OK.

Very interesting thread. My take is that there are already too many places a person can go to and be a victim. Maybe in the long run men would be better off without ?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I like how you guys keep framing it like women are now treated truly equal to men, or even that the pendulum has swung even further.

It would be helpful if when posting stuff like this you could be specific in who and what you are talking about instead of broadly saying "you guys".