Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law! More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that! More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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There is a serious issue in the UK where people are hiding behind freedom of religion/speech laws in order to perpetuate these attacks. Political Correctness has essentially tied the hands of authorities. Basic human rights are not being protected, because of the laws that allow extremists to operate.
Depending on what actual measures are being enforced altering human rights laws could actually increase or decrease human rights as a whole.
Challenging the status quo is actually quite brave. I'll reserve judgement until I see what actual measures May is supporting. Something, however, needs to be done. Europe as a whole is going through a crisis. You've got terrorist groups openly operating. The governments are doing nothing, so the population is reacting by forming far right groups of their own. It's a bad scene.
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There is a serious issue in the UK where people are hiding behind freedom of religion/speech laws in order to perpetuate these attacks. Political Correctness has essentially tied the hands of authorities. Basic human rights are not being protected, because of the laws that allow extremists to operate.
Are you serious? Just do a quick google search. You've got people openly marching on the street with placards stating that non-believers should die. Choudary was allowed to operate openly for almost 20 years before his arrest:
blankall, you sure know a lot about all this. It is refreshing to hear. Thank you for posting and being informed.
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"You're worried about the team not having enough heart. I'm worried about the team not having enough brains." HFOil fan, August 12th, 2020. E=NG
I'm all for keeping the laws of the land in place. They should be. But before we judge the UK too much, imagine if there was 3 terrorists attacks that killed dozens of people in Alberta over the last 3 months.
I'm all for keeping the laws of the land in place. They should be. But before we judge the UK too much, imagine if there was 3 terrorists attacks that killed dozens of people in Alberta over the last 3 months.
I would point out that there is a difference between human rights and human rights laws. Human rights are universal rights. Human rights laws are methods of preserving those rights. Whereas, human rights are enduring, laws need to be constantly updated to deal with changing circumstances.
Human rights will constantly overlap and conflict, and the laws need to deal with this and often prioritize one set of rights over another. I myself am very much a libertarian, in that I believe the government exists only to secure the population and should have as little of an impact as possible. However, security of the person is also the most fundamental and important of all human rights. It's obvious right now there is a major flaw in the system in Europe, as people are literally getting away with planning murder under the protection of freedom of speech/religion.
I'll take a wait and see approach here. However, to say that there needs to be changes to human rights laws, or at least their application is 100% correct.
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It's really pretty simple... Fear is never a good reason to make or amend laws.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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Are you serious? Just do a quick google search. You've got people openly marching on the street with placards stating that non-believers should die. Choudary was allowed to operate openly for almost 20 years before his arrest:
Reference to the fact that limiting freedom of speech actually helps cut down terrorism, or that "political correctness" somehow ties the hands of police to fight actual terrorism.
(Yeah, not a huge fan of hate speech laws the other way either.)
I'm all for keeping the laws of the land in place. They should be. But before we judge the UK too much, imagine if there was 3 terrorists attacks that killed dozens of people in Alberta over the last 3 months.
And if Rachel Notley or Justin Trudeau stepped up and argued that attacking our human rights would make things better, I'd call them cowards as well.
A government that attacks its own citizens' rights in response to a terrorist attack is no better.
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Reference to the fact that limiting freedom of speech actually helps cut down terrorism, or that "political correctness" somehow ties the hands of police to fight actual terrorism.
(Yeah, not a huge fan of hate speech laws the other way either.)
How would you possibly every expect to have a reference for that? It's an argument. Not a fact you would reference.
No human rights laws will do you any good if you're dead. If the UK can figure out a way to curtail extremism (at a reasonable cost), I would welcome that. At the very least, I can applaud the will to try.
No human rights laws will do you any good if you're dead. If the UK can figure out a way to curtail extremism (at a reasonable cost), I would welcome that. At the very least, I can applaud the will to try.
Your value of human rights is concerningly low, and your fear of terrorism gullibly high.
That's a terrible combination, as seen by your willingness to part for one to possibly protect you from the other.
If I'm trading rights to stop something, let it have a higher than "near zero" chance of impacting my life.
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I mean in the US there was a mass shooting that killed more the London attack just a few weeks earlier. There were twice as many gun violence deaths in the US than the London attack on the same day (including a baby that shot itself ).
And people treat those as business as usual.. or I guess that's probably not fair, everyone would say they were tragic, but many would also say they're the cost of having a free and open society with gun ownership. Or if you ignore guns and just consider people killed by knives or other ways, again that's the cost, the consequence of having a free and open society.
In a free and open society, some people are going to <insert whatever happens to push them over the line> and kill other people. There's ways to reduce it while maintaining that freedom and openness, but there's always risk. Why, when the thing that happens to push them over the line, is radicalization, is it different than the rest?
I think no matter what you're going to have violence.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I believe the analogy is that we are free to drive cars all over the country, but we have speed limits, seat belts, licenses, rules and regulations to help keep us safe. Same with guns, there are rules.
Pretending terrorism is something we should ignore and live with as a cost of society is terrible.
The fact more people die driving cars than terrorism in Canada does not mean we ban cars, it means we continue improving car and driver safety.
It is a terrible argument.
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