2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Sure that team would be fun to watch, but it isn't a team built to win the Cup and isn't that the goal? Any time you have a winger eating up $10m in cap space you are building your team wrong.

Ovechkin might be one of the best goal scorers ever, but he isn't a winner. He has never made it past the 2nd round in 9 tries and with the teams Washington has had. If we want a Cup Ovechkin isn't the player I would add.

Ovechkin was dominant in last year's playoffs and he has 90 points in 97 games over his playoff career. Sometimes I think people forget how hard it is to win the Cup and how anything can happen in a seven game series. One hot goalie, a bad bounce, a missed call can sink your chances even if you're the favourite. I'd focus more on getting good players that help our roster instead of avoiding perceived "non-clutch" players because they might ruin our chances in the playoffs when we're there.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

You know, Ray Bourque was a great player that was never able to win a cup....until he did.

Also, do Flames fans really forget that Lanny McDonald didn't win the cup until his final year? It doesn't mean Lanny wasn't a great player for all those years before they finally broke through.

I think people create these narratives in order to rank the greatest players in the game.

Poor old Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl either. Doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Question about Vegas.......could a player that has a NMC that needs to be protected in the expansion draft file his retirement papers?

Then magically the player has a change of heart and wishes to return to his team and thus avoid being protected in the expansion draft.

[iloveicedhockey]

I would imagine the team/player would be penalised, though I don't know how severely.

Likely posted earlier but top UFA this summer: shattenkirk, oshie, radulov, Alzner, hanzal, Thornton, Williams, vrbata, eaves, marleau, Markov, jagr, Fisher, hainsey, Russell, Boyle, vanek, Gagner, sharp, Smith, bonino, stone, mdz, kulikov, Miller, stafford, oduya, mason, Daly, Franson, Versteeg, hudler, Elliott, Bernier, Engelland, iggy and kunitz.

I think we learned our UFA lesson last year and shouldn't stretch but I'd think stone, Versteeg, sharp, Alzner, Williams or hudler would be my targets, provided there's value in the contract. Obviously there are a few goalie choices too if we get desperate.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Question about Vegas.......could a player that has a NMC that needs to be protected in the expansion draft file his retirement papers?

Then magically the player has a change of heart and wishes to return to his team and thus avoid being protected in the expansion draft.

The league would probably make the player go through waivers after signing. Kind of like what happened with Nabokov a few years ago when he retired and then came out of retirement.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You know, Ray Bourque was a great player that was never able to win a cup....until he did.

Also, do Flames fans really forget that Lanny McDonald didn't win the cup until his final year? It doesn't mean Lanny wasn't a great player for all those years before they finally broke through.

I think people create these narratives in order to rank the greatest players in the game.

Poor old Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl either. Doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game.

And that Iginla guy. Quite the loser.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Question about Vegas.......could a player that has a NMC that needs to be protected in the expansion draft file his retirement papers?

Then magically the player has a change of heart and wishes to return to his team and thus avoid being protected in the expansion draft.

Once you officially retire you are ineligible to play for one calendar year.

[IgiTang]

I wish the Flames were able to pry Tobias Rieder out of AZ.

Random and out of left field comment, but he's one of those guys that I think are kind of flying under the radar but are absolute studs. I know Arizona knows what they have in him but I don't think he would take a kings ransom to acquire.

If the Flames could shed Brouwer, I would be fine with the Flames trading Porier and a 2nd or perhaps even their first (#17 or so?)in this draft since it's a weak draft for Rieder.

What are others thoughts on him?

24 yrs old
13, 16, 18 goals per season and only 34 pts in 80 games last season, but I watch him play I just think he's a stud...

He could equally turn into a bust or never be more than a third liner, but out of RW sub 25 year olds in the top 6 on their team, I think he would be the cheapest to acquire.

I am perhaps over valuing, what do others think the acquisition cost would be?

[JTech780]

Regardless if you think Ovechkin is or isn't a playoff performer, spending $9.5m on one player and a winger at that just isn't good cap management and would really limit what this team could do going forward.

[calgaryblood]

Yeah we should really save up our money to spend it on proven playoff performer and great in the room $4.5 million Troy Brouwer.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Regardless if you think Ovechkin is or isn't a playoff performer, spending $9.5m on one player and a winger at that just isn't good cap management and would really limit what this team could do going forward.

Like others have mentioned, its not typically elite players making elite money that sinks teams, it's overpaying for bottom half positions that sink a team.

Right now we have Brouwer making $4.5 in our bottom six and because of this our cap structure has changed so that we can barely afford a $5mil winger for the first line if we go looking. If you don't have Brouwer and spend that extra $4.5 on Ovechkin instead of a $5mil top line winger, the team is that much closer to being a contender, especially if goaltending is properly addressed.

There's a subtle but huge difference between building a perfect cap team and building a Stanley Cup winner, and imo fans get too caught up in building a perfect cap team. You've gotta be willing to push yourself over the top at some point, some way.

[jayswin]

Almost every cup winning team these days has players way over those perfect cap structure charts and then they find cheap solutions and guys on ELC's to fill out the bottom roles.

It's a tricky game because in today's NHL you have to have all your bottom guys contributing yet to have the elite top end talent needed to win the cup you also can't go out and pay those guys.

In your scenario, bringing Ovechkin in and saying his cap hit is ridiculous and too much to build a contender is wrong. Having a guy like Brouwer at $4.5 mil in your bottom six is what's wrong, and what stops the ability to have an elite NHL forward at right wing, not the elite right wing's salary.

[MarkGio]

Let's just say the Flames could part ways with Bouma, Stajan and Brouwer to bring in Ovechkin. And then fill the bottom roster with Jankowski and Hathaway. That's closer to a cup team than what's currently in place.

The problem is it's hard to find good talent for that bottom six unless you can draft. And unfortunately the Flames haven't proven they can draft, just yet. Even though it's looked more promising these past years.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Almost every cup winning team these days has players way over those perfect cap structure charts and then they find cheap solutions and guys on ELC's to fill out the bottom roles.

It's a tricky game because in today's NHL you have to have all your bottom guys contributing yet to have the elite top end talent needed to win the cup you also can't go out and pay those guys.

In your scenario, bringing Ovechkin in and saying his cap hit is ridiculous and too much to build a contender is wrong. Having a guy like Brouwer at $4.5 mil in your bottom six is what's wrong, and what stops the ability to have an elite NHL forward at right wing, not the elite right wing's salary.

Agreed. The absolute key to success is to not overpay for "intangibles" and role players.

Look at Pittsburgh - they've focused their dollars spent on talented players, and force young players into the roster in roles that are teachable.

Look at Chicago - they've maintained their level of success by selling high on all their role players that earned pay days. Meanwhile, the Flames have continually been a team that overpays those exact players that Chicago doesn't prioritize.

It's time to stop overpaying for scraps that fall from the tables of contenders, and start creating our own value. It starts with the coaching staff and organization placing trust in their unproven young players, and then getting the coaching staff to grow those young players into effective players.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Ovechkin was dominant in last year's playoffs and he has 90 points in 97 games over his playoff career. Sometimes I think people forget how hard it is to win the Cup and how anything can happen in a seven game series. One hot goalie, a bad bounce, a missed call can sink your chances even if you're the favourite. I'd focus more on getting good players that help our roster instead of avoiding perceived "non-clutch" players because they might ruin our chances in the playoffs when we're there.

not to mention that ovi was injured and that was one of the factors in moving down to the third line...this came out following the playoffs and might explain why he looked a step slow late into the playoffs

I mean, he isn't Crosby, but unfortunately for him, he'll always be linked because of his inability to beat him

[H2SO4(aq)]

Radulov and Alzner might be enough to make the Flames a contender (if we get some semblance of a goaltender). I would offer Vegas our 2018 first to get rid of brouwer and convert that cash into Radulov.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Radulov and Alzner might be enough to make the Flames a contender (if we get some semblance of a goaltender). I would offer Vegas our 2018 first to get rid of brouwer and convert that cash into Radulov.

Nope. He's just not that good - and we don't need to be paying free agency rates for a d-man with our prospect pool as healthy as it is.

If we want to add another d-man, I'd say the best way to go is the trade market.

[Strange Brew]

Team's 3 highest paid wingers after Gaudreau are Frolik, Brouwer and Bouma.

Give me Ovechkin, Hathaway and anyone over those three and I'll take my chances.

[Roof-Daddy]

I dunno if I do much with the forwards.

They're young for the most part, and got the job done last year even with a slow start from Johnny and Mony, a sophomore slump from Bennett and one of the worst seasons Brouwer has had in his career. Next season it's not unrealistic to expect we get more from all 4 of those guys along with hopefully getting more Lazar/Janko/Hathaway in the bottom six while simultaneously getting less of Stajan and Bouma. No way do I dole out big money and term on a UFA winger at this point. The only way I do that is if Vegas takes Brouwer, and it's a short term thing for a useful vet like Williams or Marleau...and by short term I mean 2 years MAX. I would way rather go out and sign Hanzal to a multi year deal than any UFA winger on the market, as he plays a much more important position and plays it really well when healthy.

The D, you need to bring back Stone or trade for an upgrade. I say just pay the 2018 5th rounder and bring back Stone if you can get him for $4 million or less per. An upgrade is just going to cost way too many assets that if anything should be used to get a realistic upgrade in net. You also need to get another right hand shot to compete for the bottom pairing, hopefully with size and toughness to go along with some actual ability. You also don't want to pay a ton either, so a guy like Holzer makes a lot of sense. So IMO not a lot of big changes are needed on D either.

The biggest question is goaltending obviously, and I'm really worried it's going to sink another season if the right guy isn't found, and at this point I just don't think the "right guy" is even out there anymore. At least not without paying way too much to acquire him.

[FlamesNation23]

What would the price for Landeskog be at this point? Would be an amazing get but would probably cost Brodie + something else to get it done imo. If we were able to land him without giving up our top 3 d, it could put us over the top.