New Poll on Arena issue

[MrMastodonFarm]

The Oilers are a huge part of the Edmonton identity. Jerseys, hats, shirts are still out in the summertime, all year round, not so for the Flames in Calgary. Even as a hardcore fan our hockey team is so far down the list of what I consider to be a Calgarian. The Flames haven't done it but the threat of a move won't have the same impact it did in Edmonton. If King and company every go down that route don't expect a cave in from the day-to-day citizen of Calgary.

[Enoch Root]

I am not surprised that in a thread full of hyperbole, people would argue semantics (I said essentially free).

And games are essentially free in the sense that you already have cable. Regardless, the point was that there is a benefit to all in the community.

But no surprise that no one addressed the actual point.

There is a public benefit to having a team.

But hey: oh noes, I have a cable bill!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Flames games are not free, they are not essentially free. That's like saying the dinner I had last night is essentially free because I already bought the groceries. The only reason some still have cable is because of hockey games, there isn't a viable option outside an expensive cable package to see your home team. And even if Gamecenter Live was available in market it still wouldn't be free.

It's a crazy dumb point.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not surprised that in a thread full of hyperbole, people would argue semantics (I said essentially free).

And games are essentially free in the sense that you already have cable. Regardless, the point was that there is a benefit to all in the community.

But no surprise that no one addressed the actual point.

There is a public benefit to having a team.

But hey: oh noes, I have a cable bill!

Record 202,000 Canadians cut the cord last year and ditched television service
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tv-c...2016-1.4027661

I don't have cable and I subscribe to NHL Game Centre so that I can watch Flames games. Maybe I'll ask the city to pay my credit card bill.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The Oilers are a huge part of the Edmonton identity. Jerseys, hats, shirts are still out in the summertime, all year round, not so for the Flames in Calgary. Even as a hardcore fan our hockey team is so far down the list of what I consider to be a Calgarian. The Flames haven't done it but the threat of a move won't have the same impact it did in Edmonton. If King and company every go down that route don't expect a cave in from the day-to-day citizen of Calgary.

The nice thing about the Flames is that they offer something to do and support during a time of the year when a very very large swath of Calgarians don't have anything to do. They play their season during the winter. All there really is to do during the winter here is winter sports in the mountains, which are even more expensive than Flames games.

[Violator]

I said 500million as a tax payer in Calgary but realistically id give more like 300-350 million towards a Calgary next style project.But stadium alone id only feel comfortable with 75-125 million.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Torture

Record 202,000 Canadians cut the cord last year and ditched television service
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tv-c...2016-1.4027661

I don't have cable and I subscribe to NHL Game Centre so that I can watch Flames games. Maybe I'll ask the city to pay my credit card bill.

So you agree that there is a benefit to the community

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So you agree that there is a benefit to the community

That's not what I said.
As much as my ego would like it, me subscribing to NHL game centre so that I can watch Flames games provides literally no benefit to the community of Calgary. It's probably a net negative because it means people have to listen to me talk about hockey and has me posting on a message board instead of doing work.

But ok, fine, in the interest of taking what you mean rather than the specifics..
Yes, I agree their is benefit to the community having an NHL team. I enjoy talking about the Flames. I enjoy watching games. I enjoy the camaraderie and how the city comes together for a playoff run. But I don't see why the city should have to give a business valued at just under $500M $200M-$1B for an arena to play in, especially when they already have one. Sure it could be a better arena but if you want the fanciest shiniest arena pony up more of your own funds.

In an early post I said I'd be fine with a contribution between $25-$50M provided their is a tangible benefit to the city.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Torture

That's not what I said.
As much as my ego would like it, me subscribing to NHL game centre so that I can watch Flames games provides literally no benefit to the community of Calgary. It's probably a net negative because it means people have to listen to me talk about hockey and has me posting on a message board instead of doing work.

While it's true that your views on hockey are a negative the fact that CP exists proves my point

Edit: and after all that, you do agree.

[Torture]

Just some perspective. ..
If you take the City's report the Flames will require an investment of over $1b (for field house, creosote clean up, infrastructure, etc) that's 1/6th of the City's five year $5.8B (2014-2018) capital budget.


That is an absolutely insane amount of money for the City to put towards an arena for a private business.

Stick a giant "Calgary Flames" slice into that pie as the arena would become the #3 item on the city's capital budget based on the city's report. It would be:
1. Utilities & Environmental Protection
2. Transportation
3. Calgary Flames' Arena
4. Community Services & Protective Services
5. Corporate Services

Are the Calgary Flames the #3 most important thing the city should be spending money on? Are they the #3 item in your personal budget? (#1 Housing - #2 Food - #3 Calgary Flames?)

[Tiger]

Let them walk away if the threat... their relocation fee is likely more than they would get from the city anyways so they would likely be down money so it is a idle threat. I'd be willing to use public money to a point if there was no threat

[EldrickOnIce]

Of course there is value, both measurable and not easily measurable, in having a pro sports team and a fantastic facility in a city.
The Flames should pay 100% of the cost of the actual building. The city should pay 100% of associated infrastructure. Land and other considerations should be negotiable.

I have no idea what that infrastructure might cost and if there are creative ways of funding that contribution.

[KingMoo]

according these poll results so far, 200 to 500 million (grouped) outweighs the zero to 50 million, albeit im sure the numbers might be a tad skewed to the nature of this fourm...

however, it definitely paints a different picture and Nenshi should feel ashamed of spreading FAKE NEWS:
“I will point out that I made the mistake of reading the comments and it is interesting that the calls to our office, the emails, the comments have been 99.999997 per cent saying ‘please Mr. Bettman stay out of it’ and ‘no there should be no public money for this,” said the mayor.

[MrMastodonFarm]

The percentage of interactions with his office, not the percentage of all Calgary.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Torture

Just some perspective. ..

That is an absolutely insane amount of money for the City to put towards an arena for a private business.

Stick a giant "Calgary Flames" slice into that pie as the arena would become the #3 item on the city's capital budget based on the city's report. It would be:
1. Utilities & Environmental Protection
2. Transportation
3. Calgary Flames' Arena
4. Community Services & Protective Services
5. Corporate Services

Are the Calgary Flames the #3 most important thing the city should be spending money on? Are they the #3 item in your personal budget? (#1 Housing - #2 Food - #3 Calgary Flames?)

To clarify, Calgary will have to fund the clean up no matter who is involved (i.e. should have been done already)

Field house is a required facility for the City of Calgary

These will happen at some point....

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by KingMoo

according these poll results so far, 200 to 500 million (grouped) outweighs the zero to 50 million, albeit im sure the numbers might be a tad skewed to the nature of this fourm...

however, it definitely paints a different picture and Nenshi should feel ashamed of spreading FAKE NEWS:
“I will point out that I made the mistake of reading the comments and it is interesting that the calls to our office, the emails, the comments have been 99.999997 per cent saying ‘please Mr. Bettman stay out of it’ and ‘no there should be no public money for this,” said the mayor.

seems like you're characterizing the comments incorrectly too...unless you have access to the phone logs and emails that the Mayor's office is receiving, it could very well be 100% of the emails and calls are against the use of public money...

As you state, this forum is bound to be biased towards some public money supporting a new arena...

Neither is or should be the barometer for where the majority of Calgarians reside in relation to the issue of public funding for the arena

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

seems like you're characterizing the comments incorrectly too...unless you have access to the phone logs and emails that the Mayor's office is receiving, it could very well be 100% of the emails and calls are against the use of public money...

As you state, this forum is bound to be biased towards some public money supporting a new arena...

Neither is or should be the barometer for where the majority of Calgarians reside in relation to the issue of public funding for the arena

While I know you are being hyperbolic, I can tell you with absolute certainty that is not the fact.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Torture

Stick a giant "Calgary Flames" slice into that pie as the arena would become the #3 item on the city's capital budget based on the city's report. It would be:
1. Utilities & Environmental Protection
2. Transportation
3. Calgary Flames' Arena
4. Community Services & Protective Services
5. Corporate Services

Are the Calgary Flames the #3 most important thing the city should be spending money on? Are they the #3 item in your personal budget? (#1 Housing - #2 Food - #3 Calgary Flames?)

wouldn't most of the $1B be sliced into Transportation, Environmental Protection, Planning, Since most of it has nothing to do with the physical Calgary Flames arena?

[RM14]

KK on 960 right now

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think the poll results change if the question is:

How much should government contribute to a new arena if a partnership can be reached?

Removing the absurdity of losing the franchise changes the tone to the debate and my response.

If the Flames move, there will be at least 10 other franchises thrilled to move into the Calgary market. And the NHL would be thrilled to see a small market move to one where they make money, even with an aging arena.

Again - that's a different question.
This question seeks to find out how committed people are to their view that public dollars shouldn't be used, or used minimally, but proposing a possible end result of such a stance.

In my view there is risk of losing the team over this. Probably not high risk but risk none the less.