[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[TheFlamesVan]

Right, but that doesn't all go to the Flames building. Public money for a public field house makes sense. Same with transit, and most other things you outlined. But at least you laid it out, most people I talk to throw that half billion dollars out there like it's just going into 'an arena for billionaires'.

I agree that the location was a mistake though. The site needs to be cleaned but this isn't the way to do it.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Calgarynext should be dead unless the Flames want to move to a new building in 10 years. They're totally underestimating the amount of time needed to clean up the site. Just a really bad idea from the start.

The entire area doesn't need to be cleaned at once though. They mentioned a project around Vancouver that is doing this. The remediation happens as they go.

In any event, doesn't really matter, this was always a hailmary to get a replacement stadium for the Stamps.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by TheFlamesVan

Right, but that doesn't all go to the Flames building. Public money for a public field house makes sense.

Public except for when the Stamps play and want to practice, meaning the CSEC wants the city to build them their new stadium they can make a profit on under the guise of 'its a public building except when we want to make money off it', on a plot of land that doesn't make any sense for the city since it would take up a huge footprint of the CRL that would ideally go to fund the remediation and infrastructure changes needed on the site.

CalgaryNEXT relies on a minimum of $440M of public money to go through. Those are the facts. Money that can be spent in better ways to provide the same benefits to boot.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The entire area doesn't need to be cleaned at once though. They mentioned a project around Vancouver that is doing this. The remediation happens as they go.

In any event, doesn't really matter, this was always a hailmary to get a replacement stadium for the Stamps.

But for the CRL portion to actually get funded you need development, and in this case the plot of land for development left after the footprint of NEXT is taken up they might as well just do it all at once anyway to allow development as quickly as possible.

[Table 5]

To properly do West Village...meaning remediation, an appropriate riverfront, a full-assed realignment of Bow Trail / 14th St (and probably tied into any Crowchild upgrades)...I wouldn't be surprised if it took over a $1B of public money, and solid decade to do.

[JiriHrdina]

I think the fact that CalgaryNext in that iteration is dead is of little surprise. But the way the Mayor chooses to handle these things doesn't send a message that the city is a willing and cooperative partner. Both sides have mishandled this but I would expect our city leader to set the tone and example - not just drop statements like this to the media if it hadn't first communicated to the Flames.
Nenshi has many positive qualities but this stuff drive me nuts.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think the fact that CalgaryNext in that iteration is dead is of little surprise. But the way the Mayor chooses to handle these things doesn't send a message that the city is a willing and cooperative partner. Both sides of mishandled this but I would expect our city leader to set the tone and example - not just drop statements like this to the media if it hadn't first communicated to the Flames.
Nenshi has many positive qualities but this stuff drive me nuts.

Nenshi's many positive qualities are swiftly dwindling IMO.
He has this d**kheadish arrogance to him that shows up a lot more often now.
Especially when it concerns the new arena...drives me nuts too!

[Yoho]

Perhaps this is the only language CSEC understands.

[You Need a Thneed]

It was pretty obvious that CalgaryNext was never ever going to happen, even on the day it was announced. The financials for the proposed CRL were not even close to making sense.

I have no issue with Nenshi criticizing the plan and how he has handled it with CSEG. When CSEG is intentionally playing dumb because they know the numbers don't work, and the city goes above and beyond up work with the stupid idea, at some point frustration sets in.

So far, the city has been generally on board with the plan B option, and will probably be able to put a little bit of public money in there to help make the project right.

[Tyler]

Nenshi is running for re-election in the Fall.

Brazen and confrontational language regarding a major election issue is carefully planned here.

We're in an economic downturn. Support for CalgaryNext would have been a terrible move.

These kind of statements are intended to make headlines in the paper and alleviate taxpayer apprehension for huge capital spends. Mission accomplished.

[TheScorpion]

^ I agree. I quite like it when our mayor is frank about the way he views obvious issues.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Nenshi's many positive qualities are swiftly dwindling IMO.
He has this d**kheadish arrogance to him that shows up a lot more often now.
Especially when it concerns the new arena...drives me nuts too!

On one hand, I agree that Nenshi's arrogance is grating. On the other, Bettman is probably his match there. And we know Nenshi met with Bettman directly and told him to his face he didn't think getting involved would be beneficial to the process.

[Locke]

This harebrained scheme was barely half-cocked to begin with.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think the fact that CalgaryNext in that iteration is dead is of little surprise. But the way the Mayor chooses to handle these things doesn't send a message that the city is a willing and cooperative partner. Both sides of mishandled this but I would expect our city leader to set the tone and example - not just drop statements like this to the media if it hadn't first communicated to the Flames.
Nenshi has many positive qualities but this stuff drive me nuts.

You think Nenshi didn't communicate this to CSEC before making these statements? That's naive.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You think Nenshi didn't communicate this to CSEC before making these statements? That's naive.

given the year that Nenshi has had I'm not sure Jiri is the naive one.

between needing to bloviate to a cab driver in Toronto about how he put Uber in their place.

or hammering a political opponent by suggesting she had poor math skills

or going after Calgary Nexxt in these little impromptu press conferences he's shown that he doesn't seem to exactly be a team player.

Evan Wooley's comments appear to suggest the mayor has jumped ahead of the plan as well.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

It was pretty obvious that CalgaryNext was never ever going to happen, even on the day it was announced. The financials for the proposed CRL were not even close to making sense.

I have no issue with Nenshi criticizing the plan and how he has handled it with CSEG. When CSEG is intentionally playing dumb because they know the numbers don't work, and the city goes above and beyond up work with the stupid idea, at some point frustration sets in.

So far, the city has been generally on board with the plan B option, and will probably be able to put a little bit of public money in there to help make the project right.

But, the City is not going above and beyond in any way, shape or form, and has not actually told CSEC anything about what they are prepared to do on Plan B. Absolutely nothing. They would not treat any other major City employer like this.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You think Nenshi didn't communicate this to CSEC before making these statements? That's naive.

I know that they have not.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You think Nenshi didn't communicate this to CSEC before making these statements? That's naive.

Based on KK's comments it doesn't seem like he did.
And Nenshi has shown a pattern of commenting on stuff "off the cuff"
The man loves his sound bites.

The city and the Flames need to be partners on this. Both need to start acting like it.

I expect more out of our top elected city official.

[Toonage]

Imagining Nenshi & Bettman in the same room. So much snark in one place at one time.

[Bill Bumface]

Edit: ^I'm too slow. Andy wordy apparently...

Originally Posted by saillias

On one hand, I agree that Nenshi's arrogance is grating. On the other, Bettman is probably his match there. And we know Nenshi met with Bettman directly and told him to his face he didn't think getting involved would be beneficial to the process.

The funny thing is I actually overall like both Bettman and Nenshi, but both lack some serious tact with the way they express their opinions and treat their stakeholders.

Imagining both of them in the same room in full Nenshi and Bettman mode would be the most unproductive, painful thing I could imagine.

Yet seeing Bettman destroy Ron Maclean or Nenshi take down Sun reporters somehow is a thing of beauty to me.

Polarizing guys for sure.

I think it's pretty obvious to all Calgary Next is dead, but there are proper methods to messaging these things.