Why the Lefties lost

[HOZ]

Steyn in Australia

One of the best Canuck conservative writers ever...IMO

[Lanny_MacDonald]

What a load of excrement. I heard the same thing two days ago on "Rush" and now its working its way through the echo chamber. I think that before anyone really blieves this garbage they should spend a few hours listening to and reading the Republican noise machine and see for themselves that it worked both ways. Republicans have managed to demonize "liberalism" and cast it in the same light as communism. Mean while they hold the extreme Christian right, famous for their efforts of thought control, as the one shining representation of things American. They vilified a majority of the country to mobilize those that have not voted in the past. How was this different from what the extreme left attempted in this election? There is no difference. The only difference is that one side of the battle refuses to acknowledge that they have any responsibility in such actions.

The reason the Democrats lost is because they never managed to stay on topic. They continually allowed Karl Rove to dictate the forum and the topic to them. Rove had the Democrats chasing their tails the last 18 months. If the Democrats had managed to pick a candidate that could stay on topic and could attack it effectively, appealing to the wants and needs of the nation rather than their "base" (that term is so much BS) they would have been much better off and likely would have won. The Republicans managed to keep the Democrats off balance and managed to make THEM look like the incompetant boobs even while Iraq (the issue the Bush team wanted to fight the campaign on and the one the Democrats should have left alone) was imploding around them. If you're looking for a reason why the Democrats lost, look at their action plan, not the actions of the Michael Moores.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Nov 6 2004, 04:43 PM
What a load of excrement. I heard the same thing two days ago on "Rush" and now its working its way through the echo chamber. I think that before anyone really blieves this garbage they should spend a few hours listening to and reading the Republican noise machine and see for themselves that it worked both ways. Republicans have managed to demonize "liberalism" and cast it in the same light as communism. Mean while they hold the extreme Christian right, famous for their efforts of thought control, as the one shining representation of things American. They vilified a majority of the country to mobilize those that have not voted in the past. How was this different from what the extreme left attempted in this election? There is no difference. The only difference is that one side of the battle refuses to acknowledge that they have any responsibility in such actions.

The reason the Democrats lost is because they never managed to stay on topic. They continually allowed Karl Rove to dictate the forum and the topic to them. Rove had the Democrats chasing their tails the last 18 months. If the Democrats had managed to pick a candidate that could stay on topic and could attack it effectively, appealing to the wants and needs of the nation rather than their "base" (that term is so much BS) they would have been much better off and likely would have won. The Republicans managed to keep the Democrats off balance and managed to make THEM look like the incompetant boobs even while Iraq (the issue the Bush team wanted to fight the campaign on and the one the Democrats should have left alone) was imploding around them. If you're looking for a reason why the Democrats lost, look at their action plan, not the actions of the Michael Moores.

Well Lanny here is Brookes with evidence that the Christian hordes ended up voting in the same numbers.....honestly whenI read this I could have sworn he was talking about you.

Election Myth

why is it that people who are completely closed-minded talk endlessly about how open-minded they are?

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Nov 6 2004, 10:43 AM
What a load of excrement. I heard the same thing two days ago on "Rush" and now its working its way through the echo chamber. I think that before anyone really blieves this garbage they should spend a few hours listening to and reading the Republican noise machine and see for themselves that it worked both ways. Republicans have managed to demonize "liberalism" and cast it in the same light as communism. Mean while they hold the extreme Christian right, famous for their efforts of thought control, as the one shining representation of things American. They vilified a majority of the country to mobilize those that have not voted in the past. How was this different from what the extreme left attempted in this election? There is no difference. The only difference is that one side of the battle refuses to acknowledge that they have any responsibility in such actions.

The reason the Democrats lost is because they never managed to stay on topic. They continually allowed Karl Rove to dictate the forum and the topic to them. Rove had the Democrats chasing their tails the last 18 months. If the Democrats had managed to pick a candidate that could stay on topic and could attack it effectively, appealing to the wants and needs of the nation rather than their "base" (that term is so much BS) they would have been much better off and likely would have won. The Republicans managed to keep the Democrats off balance and managed to make THEM look like the incompetant boobs even while Iraq (the issue the Bush team wanted to fight the campaign on and the one the Democrats should have left alone) was imploding around them. If you're looking for a reason why the Democrats lost, look at their action plan, not the actions of the Michael Moores.

He has a right leaning bent, so take it with a grain of salt, but he does make a point.

There was a discounting of the right when it comes to voting. Heck we saw it on this site from one day to the next, often out of your mouth Lanny.

You were embarassed for anyone that would support Bush.
You marginalized those that vote for the right as less intelligent.
You hinted that the right was just a pack of fanatical religious zealots.

Turns out there must be many normal, every day, intelligent, mindful people that voted for Bush or the man wouldn't have won.

Kerry wasn't guilty of this, I don't think the DNC was guilty of this, but the left leaning media, and the odd hollywood support staff was all too quick to talk down to the masses in this election, and that just might have pushed many off the fence towards Bush, instead of the other way - their clear intent.

I know personally, I've never thought any less of people on this site that backed Kerry, or lean left on political issues. There is plenty of reason and sound logic to back up their thoughts.

But maybe a little open mindes from the aformentioned going the other way would have made the difference.

[jonesy]

That kind of rings true. It often seemed on this site that even to say you "don't really really hate Bush" meant you were bordering mental ######ation.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Bingo@Nov 7 2004, 06:26 PM
...but the left leaning media...

Okay, I think its time to dispell this myth once and for all. Wanna do it here, or in another thread?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Nov 7 2004, 01:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Nov 7 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bingo@Nov 7 2004, 06:26 PM
...but the left leaning media...

Okay, I think its time to dispell this myth once and for all. Wanna do it here, or in another thread? [/b][/quote]
Oh the drama! This is going to be good, I can feel it.

edit: The article says the youth vote never showed up as always. Didn't the youth vote increase this year? And the majority voted for Kerry?

[jonesy]

Does anyone know if eminem (sp) actually voted? I would like to see if he was just trying to sell records or actually cares. It seems his fans didn't vote enmasse, despite his witty prose.
ps
this is in response to the article on youth vote mentioned by BA101, not really on topic, sorry

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by jonesy@Nov 7 2004, 01:41 PM
ps
this is in response to the article on youth vote mentioned by BA101, not really on topic, sorry

what the hell? not on topic? It was talked about in the article that was posted, and moore even talks about it on his website. It was a legitimate question.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Nov 7 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Nov 7 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bingo@Nov 7 2004, 06:26 PM
...but the left leaning media...

Okay, I think its time to dispell this myth once and for all. Wanna do it here, or in another thread? [/b][/quote]
Up to you ...

To be honest though, I wouldn't get your hopes up of dispelling any myth. Like most things in politics there is a source for both sides so you can run around linking to web sites all day, and you won't change the mind of someone that sees it the other way.

I think Cow put it pretty well the other day. The biggest mistake of those calling bias either way is to include commentators in the mix. O'Reilly, Maher, Stewart, Franken, etc are paid to have opinions, so it comes as no real surprise when they come out hard on the side you expect.

The real debate and/or issue is actual news. Who spins the news? Jumps on sketchy facts and turns them into real facts? Fails to report on stories that don't fit into their ideology.

I'm not really in a hurry to get into this with you as I know I'll never sway your opinion. But in a year where we've had Rather-gate, and the New York Times going with an explosives story that they sat on for months the week before an election it should seem obvious to you that you will have a real uphill battle dispelling any myths the other way as well.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101+Nov 7 2004, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BlackArcher101 @ Nov 7 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Okay, I think its time to dispell this myth once and for all. Wanna do it here, or in another thread?

Oh the drama! This is going to be good, I can feel it.

edit: The article says the youth vote never showed up as always. Didn't the youth vote increase this year? And the majority voted for Kerry? [/b][/quote]
Well its a load of crap that was started by the Nixon regime in an attempt to discredit the "new" media that was coming down hard on Vietnam and on his election campaign. This was at a time when the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (founded in 1967 and gave the liberal's a production voice) was developing some very damning documentaries that exposed the soft under-belly of the Nixon regime. Nixon's response was to attempt to silence them by cutting their funding and forcing them to fragment down to the civic and state levels, and reorganizing into what is today PBS. This shifted the power from the journalist to the local businessman running the station. The impact of the programs was lessened greatly as programs were not run at the same time on the same day and fragmaneted the message. The message of these programs never got a chance to resonate around the country like the major networks did. CPB/PBS was essentially neutered before it had a chance to grow into a viable body.

If this myth of "liberal bias" in the media were so true, why would Reagan be the one who struck down the media Fairness Doctrine, established in 1934, which required equal time for the voices of all parties? Why would he also de-regulate the industry itself? Because he knew that through these two movements it would allow the conservative voice to become the loudest. The established media still had structures within that believed in the Fairness Doctorine and were well staffed and managed by those who were accustomed to balanced reporting, so it would take these bodies time to develop the voice other wise. But with de-regulation it allowed a conservative movement to begin to swallow up media outlets across the country as media monsters like Clear Channel began to develop. At this exact time a new medium was developing that would give the conservatives another voice, and that was cable TV.

Ted Turner launched his CNN network, a conservative outlet right of center, and gave the conservative reporters and think tanks an avenue to the airwaves. The RW hate radio network, having been popular in local markets since the 40's, got a national network and developed many big names (Downey Jr., Limbaugh, etc.) that were given a voice nationally through syndication. When Rupert Murdoch finally got involved and launched FoxNews the ball was already rolling. The media line had slowly been shifted from center to the right, leaving much of the big media (ABC, CBS, NBC) left of where CNN was, now considered the centerist view. These news bodies hadn't changed and were still sitting where they had for over 50 years. The belief of the public had through a continual attack on these institutions by the new media. With the advent of FoxNews and the launch of the internet news bodies, the media had a new ultra-right view point that loudly proclaimed they were "fair and balanced" even though the truth was the opposite.

The secret to the new RW media is their proclamation that they ARE fair and balanced and attack the established media as being "liberal". Over the last 30 years they have developed a network of conservative owned media outlets (TV, Radio, Newsprint and Internet), conservative speakers and writers, conservative think tanks and support bodies, and conservative financial bodies to forward the voice. All of these bodies fly under the radar by all following the mantra of announcing "the liberal" or "elite" media bias. Its brilliant ansd has been very effective in dragging the center line to the right, essentially leaving the traditional media on the left side of line. The transformation was quick and noisy, but because of those making the noise and poiting the fingers the public never even noticed that the line was moved behind their back.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Bingo+Nov 7 2004, 07:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bingo @ Nov 7 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Okay, I think its time to dispell this myth once and for all. Wanna do it here, or in another thread?

Up to you ...

To be honest though, I wouldn't get your hopes up of dispelling any myth. Like most things in politics there is a source for both sides so you can run around linking to web sites all day, and you won't change the mind of someone that sees it the other way.

I think Cow put it pretty well the other day. The biggest mistake of those calling bias either way is to include commentators in the mix. O'Reilly, Maher, Stewart, Franken, etc are paid to have opinions, so it comes as no real surprise when they come out hard on the side you expect.

The real debate and/or issue is actual news. Who spins the news? Jumps on sketchy facts and turns them into real facts? Fails to report on stories that don't fit into their ideology.

I'm not really in a hurry to get into this with you as I know I'll never sway your opinion. But in a year where we've had Rather-gate, and the New York Times going with an explosives story that they sat on for months the week before an election it should seem obvious to you that you will have a real uphill battle dispelling any myths the other way as well. [/b][/quote]
Grouping Stewart into the "left wing" media there Bingo.... You don't watch the Daily show, do you?

First and foremost his show is on Comedy Central and is CLEARLY a FAKE NEWS SHOW. His first duty to the viewers and the network he is on is to provide COMEDY.

Now as far as making political jokes in his monologe? He does them equally and makes fun of Kerry just as much as he does Bush.

John Stewart is not paid to have opinions on issues, hes paid to make people laugh.

He is left leaning and does express that in his interviews, but don't exaggerate.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

HOZ...

On how the Left lost... Karl Rove says it all. Thank you for agreeing Karl.

Kerry made it soooo easy!

Oh, and he said it on the left wing liberal media outlet too.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Nov 7 2004, 01:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Nov 7 2004, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Up to you ...

To be honest though, I wouldn't get your hopes up of dispelling any myth. Like most things in politics there is a source for both sides so you can run around linking to web sites all day, and you won't change the mind of someone that sees it the other way.

I think Cow put it pretty well the other day. The biggest mistake of those calling bias either way is to include commentators in the mix. O'Reilly, Maher, Stewart, Franken, etc are paid to have opinions, so it comes as no real surprise when they come out hard on the side you expect.

The real debate and/or issue is actual news. Who spins the news? Jumps on sketchy facts and turns them into real facts? Fails to report on stories that don't fit into their ideology.

I'm not really in a hurry to get into this with you as I know I'll never sway your opinion. But in a year where we've had Rather-gate, and the New York Times going with an explosives story that they sat on for months the week before an election it should seem obvious to you that you will have a real uphill battle dispelling any myths the other way as well.

Grouping Stewart into the "left wing" media there Bingo.... You don't watch the Daily show, do you?

First and foremost his show is on Comedy Central and is CLEARLY a FAKE NEWS SHOW. His first duty to the viewers and the network he is on is to provide COMEDY.

Now as far as making political jokes in his monologe? He does them equally and makes fun of Kerry just as much as he does Bush.

John Stewart is not paid to have opinions on issues, hes paid to make people laugh.

He is left leaning and does express that in his interviews, but don't exaggerate. [/b][/quote]
John Stewart is Democratic supporter, it is obvious on his show, and I even remember basically saying it on his show. He is Bill Maher all over again. Stewart is definately leaning left, their is no question.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Nov 7 2004, 02:02 PM
John Stewart is Democratic supporter, it is obvious on his show, and I even remember basically saying it on his show. He is Bill Maher all over again. Stewart is definately leaning left, their is no question.

My god, who cares?

Jon Stewart is a comedian, his show is a comedy show. He makes fun of the absurd things in life. That includes politics and both things from the right and left of the politcial spectrum.

[BlackArcher101]

I don't have an opinion on the matter, but John Stewart is not all comedian. If you haven't seen his appearance on CNN's Crossfire, watch it here:

http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/10/Cross...Stewart-cut.avi (70mb, complete)
http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/10/Cross...ohn_Stewart.wmv (36mb, shorter)

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101@Nov 7 2004, 09:17 PM
I don't have an opinion on the matter, but John Stewart is not all comedian. If you haven't seen his appearance on CNN's Crossfire, watch it here:


Crossfire-20041015-John_Stewart-cut.avi (70mb, complete)
http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/10/Cross...ohn_Stewart.wmv (36mb, cut)

ooo so the guy has opinons. Yes I've already read the entire transcript when it was posted earlier, just watch the show before you pass judgement (more than once cow).

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Nov 7 2004, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Nov 7 2004, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy@Nov 7 2004, 02:02 PM
John Stewart is Democratic supporter, it is obvious on his show, and I even remember basically saying it on his show. He is Bill Maher all over again. Stewart is definately leaning left, their is no question.

My god, who cares?

Jon Stewart is a comedian, his show is a comedy show. He makes fun of the absurd things in life. That includes politics and both things from the right and left of the politcial spectrum. [/b][/quote]
Wow MMF? I was just saying that he is a supporter of the democrats, and it is quite obvious. I said this because CaramonLS said he doesn't support either on his show. The problem is, is that you care so little you fail to read the post that I quoted.

I don't think it matters I was just simply saying that Caramon was wrong.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Nov 7 2004, 04:18 PM
ooo so the guy has opinons. Yes I've already read the entire transcript when it was posted earlier, just watch the show before you pass judgement (more than once cow).

Wasn't directed at you, sorry, I didn't find the earlier post in my search.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Nov 7 2004, 09:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Nov 7 2004, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

My god, who cares?

Jon Stewart is a comedian, his show is a comedy show. He makes fun of the absurd things in life. That includes politics and both things from the right and left of the politcial spectrum.

Wow MMF? I was just saying that he is a supporter of the democrats, and it is quite obvious. I said this because CaramonLS said he doesn't support either on his show. The problem is, is that you care so little you fail to read the post that I quoted.

I don't think it matters I was just simply saying that Caramon was wrong. [/b][/quote]
Read my post, I said he leans left and does tend to show that in his interviews, but in reality MMF is right, its a comedy show not a news outlet, he makes fun of both parties, whatever gets laughs.