[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DJones

Just makes more sense, let the city deal with the west village clean up

they never will...we love the environment, unless it costs somebody money

[dino7c]

I can assure you guys a new stadium pumps far more money into the economy than the public library.

I am spending much of my entertainment dollar in Edmonton these days and its not by choice

[HotHotHeat]

Can someone explain why the idea of Flames' ownership dipping into their personal wealth to build this thing is so unreasonable? Don't average income earners use their personal wealth all the time to try to better their businesses? Why/how is this different?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Locke

I like and respect Gary Bettman a fair bit, and I know its within his purview to get the best facilities for NHL teams and gladhand a little bit, but this seems like hes laying it on a little thick.

I have to say, in my experience if your own plans dont work out (CalgaryNEXT) you call in someone from an pay-grade above yours to try and smooth it out.

I hope Nenshi is polite but firm. Say 'No' to CalgaryNEXT. It was a half-cocked scheme at best.

And I'm surprised and shocked that King would think anything otherwise.

However, if a new arena doesn't happen.. (i.e does not have to be CalgaryNEXT)

In my view the Flames will threaten to move the team.

There is a reason the commissioner is meeting with the Major.

I sure there are pressure tactics.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Can someone explain why the idea of Flames' ownership dipping into their personal wealth to build this thing is so unreasonable? Don't average income earners use their personal wealth all the time to try to better their businesses? Why/how is this different?

I would think the Flames owner view a professional team is an important element to the City of Calgary.

Many...many Cities build arenas and stadiums with Tax dollars.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I can assure you guys a new stadium pumps far more money into the economy than the public library.

I am spending much of my entertainment dollar in Edmonton these days and its not by choice

That's nice, but a public library is far more valuable to a society than an arena. And if you think otherwise, you're ridiculously wrong.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

The difference is, as other have pointed out, that a public library and national music centre are not-for-profit entities. In the case of the public library it is a municipal service similar to police or firefighters. There is a general understanding that when one pays taxes, those tax dollars most go to fund public services.

The Calgary Flames are a for-profit business owned by Calgary Sports and Entertainment. They're trying to make the claim that a new arena would be such a good deal for the city that the city itself should invest in the venture. Essentially, it's a business trying to convince the city to pay some of it's expenses.

What makes arena deals even worse is that, unlike most investment situations, where the person or organization invest gets a cut of the profits, in this situation CSEC would keep 100% of the profits.

While arena deals may have some merit (it's debatable), the new arena isn't like a library. Rather a new arena would be like if I decide I want to open up a coffee shop. Except, instead of simply spending the money to purchase a location and put in the infrastructure required for said coffee shop, I went to all the businesses around my potential location and told them my shop will be so successful and popular that their businesses will thrive as a result, insisting they give me money to open my shop and then, assuming they actually do that, keeping all the profits from my shop instead of sharing with my investors.

I agree that the 2 are diffenent as far as one being a business and the other being a non for profit municipal service. But I also think they are different as far as the economic benefit to city goes as well.

Look at plan B for and example, Victoria Park. I don't think is much current tax revenue coming in from the empty lots in the area. The city invests $200 mill up front to help fund the construction and as a kick start to help start development of the area, really no different than what we did for East Village. Once the Area is done you have a draw for further development (apartments, restaurants, bars, hotels, etc.) and a new tax source for the city. I will go back to my Garth Brooks example and his 8 sold out shows in Edmonton, you can't tell me that didn't benefit the Edmonton economy in some way.

The library on the other hand (sorry for picking on the Library but its just a example of a current project that is costing taxpayers about the same about of money) will not have any economic benefit.

Anyway, I am not here to lobby for my money to go to Murray Edwards. I just think it is important for the city to update it sports facilities.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

That's nice, but a public library is far more valuable to a society than an arena. And if you think otherwise, you're ridiculously wrong.

With the onset of digital media and the internet I think the "value to society" of a $250 mil Public Library is debatable. It also will not hold anymore books than the existing public library downtown, it will just have more computer terminals and play spaces for kids/teens.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flambers

However, if a new arena doesn't happen.. (i.e does not have to be CalgaryNEXT)

In my view the Flames will threaten to move the team.

There is a reason the commissioner is meeting with the Major.

I sure there are pressure tactics.

Have fun with that. Cya! I could always take up Vegas.

[dino7c]

It should be a split between taxpayers and the owners

If all the owners cared about was making money they there are far better investments out there than a hockey team and they know it. Flames leaving town would certainly hurt the City more than it would the owners

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

With the onset of digital media and the internet I think the "value to society" of a $250 mil Public Library is debatable. It also will not hold anymore books than the existing public library downtown, it will just have more computer terminals and play spaces for kids/teens.

no kidding, guessing he hasn't even been there...pfft its an internet cafe with books

anyway...I am not saying no library, a City like Calgary should be able to have both

[stone hands]

Is having a medium(computers) that the youth will actually use to bring them into a library a bad thing?

You know, libraries aren't just book warehouses, and not everything is about dollars and cents

[monkeyman]

I'd love to hear that threat. build us a new arena so we can make even more money or were going to move the team to a market where were likely to lose millions of dollars a year.
Meanwhile, in the background you see the owners of the Coyotes rubbing their hands together and quietly proclaiming "Excellent".

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I can assure you guys a new stadium pumps far more money into the economy than the public library.

I am spending much of my entertainment dollar in Edmonton these days and its not by choice

Thanks for the observation. I was always under the assumption that public libraries were huge cash cows. Frankly, now that I think about it...a new stadium pumps more money into the economy than an elementary school.

Clearly we should be focusing our public funds on Garth Brooks banners, not literacy, education and other areas that bring no financial benefit to our economy.

[OmegaV4]

What we really need is a hilarious sponsor to help pay for the arena:

"Good Evening hockey fans, and welcome to tonight's match up between the Boston Bruins and the Calgary Flames. Tonight's game will be a hard one, and we are coming to you live from the Brazzers Arena in Calgary"

COME ON PEOPLE.

[Karl Racki]

Originally Posted by dino7c

no kidding, guessing he hasn't even been there...pfft its an internet cafe with books

Not true!!! If I read correctly a few posts above, its an essential service, like a police service or firefighters!!

[GGG]

There is some arguement that a McMahon replacement is similar to the public library case as there is no viable way for the stamps revenue streams to pay for it so the CFL is essentially a subsidized cultural institution.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Karl Racki

Not true!!! If I read correctly a few posts above, its an essential service, like a police service or firefighters!!

I really shouldn't have brought up the library, this should be a discussion on the new arena. But to call library's a "essential service" like the police or fire fighers" is laughable. Anyway, I am not suggesting the city close library's or stop funding them I am just suggesting a new $250 million dollar library, 2 blocks away from the existing one, and a block away from another one at Bow Valley College might be a worse use of taxpayer money than funding redevelopment of Victoria Park and a new sports/entertainment arena.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I really shouldn't have brought up the library, this should be a discussion on the new arena. But to call library's a "essential service" like the police or fire fighers" is laughable. Anyway, I am not suggesting the city close library's or stop funding them I am just suggesting a new $250 million dollar library, 2 blocks away from the existing one, and a block away from another one at Bow Valley College might not be a worse use of taxpayer money than funding redevelopment of Victoria Park and a new sports/entertainment arena.

If the CoC were to invest ~$200MM into sports, it should go into local arenas or pools or fields at $10MM/. Not to a professional team that makes tens of millions of profit per year. Taxpayer dollars fund public facilities. Private dollars should fund venues that paying customers attend for pure entertainment.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

so you want the city to build and run the rink? Pay $500mil to build it and then hope we make enough money selling popcorn and beer to cover the operating costs? I think that is a much worse deal for the city.

this post is hilarious.