Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Hasn't Boras flat out said in the past he won't deal with Toronto?

I think under Paul Beeston, Toronto refused to sign players to contracts longer than 5 years (I could be wrong on that), Boras had a big issue with that and openly criticized Toronto for that stance, basically saying that Toronto couldn't be a competitive team with that policy in place.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Toronto basically has zero chance of re-signing him now, Boras always goes to market.

Not always but it is relatively rare. Plus he's (Boras) very very very good at his job so any chance of a team friendly extensive (should Sanchez be the rare case) is probably gone.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I mean kind of good news in a way? Now it's basically trade him soon and get a nice haul, or you really don't give a crap about saving his arm or innings limits and run him into the ground until he's a UFA. At least you know what's next and can plan accordingly.

[ClubFlames]

Reading the last few posts it looks like Sanchez has asked for a trade.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

Reading the last few posts it looks like Sanchez has asked for a trade.

Well when you switch to Boras you are basically telling your current team that you don't plan on sticking around long term.

Now the Jays could still keep him long term, they are just going to have to pay full market value and wait till he gets to UFA to find out exactly what full market value is.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not always but it is relatively rare. Plus he's (Boras) very very very good at his job so any chance of a team friendly extensive (should Sanchez be the rare case) is probably gone.

Do team friendly extensions even exist in baseball anymore? I honestly can't remember the Jays ever getting one. Even Jose and EE were at or above market value on their last contract. Most would argue they got more than market value at the time they originally signed.

[Parallex]

Even Jose and EE were at or above market value on their last contract. Most would argue they got more than market value at the time they originally signed.

... what? Those were two of the most team friendly contracts in MLB. Based on walk year WAR they were paid way below their performance value and had team options at the tail end. You don't get more team friendly then that.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Well when you switch to Boras you are basically telling your current team that you don't plan on sticking around long term.

We'll... it's more telling your current employer that you intend to get paid as much as you can. Strasberg signed an extension with the Nationals... it just cost them $175,000,000.00. Boras is a very good agent.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... what? Those were two of the most team friendly contracts in MLB. Based on walk year WAR they were paid way below their performance value and had team options at the tail end. You don't get more team friendly then that.

They turned out to be, but when they wee given their contracts a lot
Of people said it was overpayment for a very limited amount of consistent production.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

They turned out to be, but when they wee given their contracts a lot
Of people said it was overpayment for a very limited amount of consistent production.

Yeah, there was a lot of risk of Bautista and EE being one year busts. Turns out they weren't and those contracts were in favor of the team, but at the time it wasn't such. Worked out great for the Jays though.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

They turned out to be, but when they wee given their contracts a lot Of people said it was overpayment for a very limited amount of consistent production.

Yeah there was some risk involved. That doesn't make them any less team friendly... unless your definition of "team friendly" requires zero risk (in which case no contract extension signed by anyone since the elimination of the reserve clause has been team friendly)

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah there was some risk involved. That doesn't make them any less team friendly... unless your definition of "team friendly" requires zero risk (in which case no contract extension signed by anyone since the elimination of the reserve clause has been team friendly)

What are you actually even arguing here? I said there's no evidence that anyone has given the Jays a team friendly contract in recent memory, and even the most team friendly contracts they had (EE and Edwin), when signed, were considered overpayment by most around baseball and a very big stretch by Anthopoulos.

This whole team friendly contract is an NHL concept, and exists solely because of a hard salary cap and taking every dollar you can results in having less quality players around you. This concept does not exist in MLB or the NBA because of the way their CBAs are structured and not having a hard cap.

Sanchez was always going to command a fortune, but I agree that having Boras as his agent probably turns a fortune into a ridiculous demand and makes a move more likely. Jays were always going to have throw their 5 year rule out the window and be willing to pay David Price money if they have any intentions of keeping Sanchez, regardless of the agent.

[Sylvanfan]

Let's see Sanchez follow up this year. At one point in time Ricky Romero was an up and coming Allstar. The Stro-show was destined for greatness.

Sanchez has great stuff, but he's far from proven as a consistent MLB pitcher.

[jayswin]

So it's being reported today that the Blue Jays haven't offered anything to Bautista and aren't discussing anything, despite rumors to the contrary.

Jose apparently said he wants to return and is confused about how things are progressing. Maybe they're looking at other options first, knowing they can pretty much have Bautista if they want him?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by jayswin

So it's being reported today that the Blue Jays haven't offered anything to Bautista and aren't discussing anything, despite rumors to the contrary.

Jose apparently said he wants to return and is confused about how things are progressing. Maybe they're looking at other options first, knowing they can pretty much have Bautista if they want him?

OBautista rumors heat up on Sportsnet to help douse the outrage from fans for EE leaving, and prove to be false two weeks later when the fuse is no longer lit about EE. It's almost like the owners have some sort of PR machine they can use at their beckon....


I'll be pretty pissed if they don't bring Bautista back and go with some garbage or reclamation project in the outfield. I hope the Jays have some sort of shocker trade lined up for an outfielder, because other than that, anything other than Bautista on the market is a substantial downgrade, and as you all know, i'm not the biggest fan of Bautista.

[Cappy]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...s-encarnacion/

Timeline of the jays and EE discussions.

Jays move fast, obviously misjudging the market; but hard to say they didn't make an effort

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

This whole team friendly contract is an NHL concept, and exists solely because of a hard salary cap and taking every dollar you can results in having less quality players around you. This concept does not exist in MLB or the NBA because of the way their CBAs are structured and not having a hard cap.

That's untrue. At least in regards to MLB.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...ly%20contracts

Hell, on the show Pitch (if you haven't seen it you should it's very good) a character talking about worries that a player would be traded says "well he's a young all-star centerfielder with a team friendly contract). If it's on a FOX network show about then it's not just an NHL concept.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Parallex

That's untrue. At least in regards to MLB.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...ly%20contracts

Hell, on the show Pitch (if you haven't seen it you should it's very good) a character talking about worries that a player would be traded says "well he's a young all-star centerfielder with a team friendly contract). If it's on a FOX network show about then it's not just an NHL concept.

Parallex, you're arguing two different things - there's a distinct difference between a team friendly contract and signing a hometown discount. What TAO is arguing is that in MLB the culture and economics is such that players don't give discounts to their teams. They simply sign for the most part, with the highest bidder. Having said this, there are always exceptions, but for the most part there is little loyalty to take a discount to stay with a particular team. Now, generally a "team friendly contract" is either a) something that turned out to be a steal when a player was already signed in and broke out, b) a reclamation player who signed because nobody else would and they turned their game around, or c) a young player who was already signed who broke out and the sometimes seen d) a team option that gets exercised on a player because the contract signed turned out to be good for the team.

Summing it up, team friendly contracts are outcomes as opposed to a conscious decision made on the players part to sign for a discount. That happens more in the NHL as MLBPA has really discouraged that type of thing.

[Jason14h]

If Sanchez was to sign a 6 year 50 million contract next year in his 1st year of arbitration it could be :

1. Very team friendly in years 4-5-6
2. Rickey Romero V 2.0

It doesn't mean when/if he signed it he would be giving a hometown discount

[HappyGilmore]

Still holding out hope they swing a deal for Votto somehow. Would fill that void at 1st beautifuly. Morales has the ability to mirror EE's numbers. Bring back JB on a one year term and hope he find some his game again. They need a bat at 1st, Smoak is a joke. The window is closing real quick. Hopefully 3rd times a charm!