Suzuki ready to hang em up

[Flash Walken]

This thread depresses me.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This thread depresses me.

I hear ya Flash, I can't even read it...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I'll let fanforever1986 give his own points on what he meant by by the island reference but I have a point or two on it.

One it adds to the "elistist" vibe that always comes from the guy. Hey fix up your slum while I have the cash to be out on my island. Yep that's nice elistist but the majority of us live in the real world. My taxes pay for changes we make to how we do things and my money unlike yours is limited.

How did your taxes get involved in this? Your main beef here seems to be that he has more money than you.

And elitist? Geezus, the guy spent part of his childhood in a goddamn internment camp and went on to become a world-famous scientist. It's not elitism, it's achievement.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Hey move to Hamilton there Dave buddy and take the bus to your tv studio etc. When you advocate change look at it from the stance of the common man and be realistic.

What does this even mean?

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Lets tank the economy because we think maybe global warming is going to kill us all off --- Hmmm ahhh no Dave buddy. We have jobs and families to support.

If you believe that claptrap is the message then no wonder you don't like the guy.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Some of the points for environmental types are readily accepted because they make sense -- Cut down a tree and plant at least one to replace it. No problem -- the logic is there and it makes monetary sense.

Lets tank the economy because we think maybe global warming is going to kill us all off --- Hmmm ahhh no Dave buddy. We have jobs and families to support.

Give the guy kudo's for sticking to his message -- obvious he believes it but expecting us to be impressed by a bunch of stuff behind his name -- Nope.

Glad to see you accept the basics of conservation. The problems come when you go to plant the tree to replace the one cut down. When clearcutting happens trees are stripped from creek and riversides causing erosion and floods. Planting the tree onto bare rock doesn't usually work. I'm not saying to stop logging, I'm saying to harvest everything in a sustainable manner which if it wasn't for people like Suzuki wouldn't happen.

Despite international corporate complaining, enviromental policies often create jobs for the common guy.

[White Doors]

The problems come when you go to plant the tree to replace the one cut down. When clearcutting happens trees are stripped from creek and riversides causing erosion and floods. Planting the tree onto bare rock doesn't usually work.

it is common practice NOT to cut trees away from the sides of rivers etc not only for erosion but to keep the water the same temp for the fish. This is a poor example as it is not usually done.

[Coelah]

Originally Posted by White Doors

it is common practice NOT to cut trees away from the sides of rivers etc not only for erosion but to keep the water the same temp for the fish. This is a poor example as it is not usually done.

Anymore. Used to be done all the time.

I think there is a place for Suzuki and his voice, as a counterbalance to the corporate philosophy. Weigh them against each other and hopefully you come to a middle ground where most people fit in...sustainable growth.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by White Doors

it is common practice NOT to cut trees away from the sides of rivers etc not only for erosion but to keep the water the same temp for the fish. This is a poor example as it is not usually done.

Yeah, that's why we don't have yearly flood and landslide problems in BC. Take a look at whole mountainsides cleared of every tree as you drive through BC. If it's not usually done anymore, we can thank people like Suzuki.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How did your taxes get involved in this? Your main beef here seems to be that he has more money than you.

And elitist? Geezus, the guy spent part of his childhood in a goddamn internment camp and went on to become a world-famous scientist. It's not elitism, it's achievement.



What does this even mean?



If you believe that claptrap is the message then no wonder you don't like the guy.

It's an extreme example of environmentalists and people who aren't involved in the working world or in an industry unaffected by environmental goofiness think.

Hmmm says university student for example that sure sounds good to me. Well might do but in the real world we dont want changes made by those on the fringe or even just on the edge. We want a balanced approach that takes into account people before anything else. If it's sound economically then fine. If you have a plan to deal with anybody who might lose their job as a result of changes then fine.

Elitism isn't part of your DNA. Fame and fortune go to a lot of people's heads -- they think they are now better than you and you should look at their position/achievements and tow their line.

I guess that would mean something if we didn't have so many examples of people with lots of money or degrees etc. that turned out to be LOSERS.

I still say he gets my respect because he stuck to his guns -- the stuff behind his name --whatever. I don't base my opinion on someone on the stuff behind their name or the amount of money they have acquired.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Elitism isn't part of your DNA. Fame and fortune go to a lot of people's heads -- they think they are now better than you and you should look at their position/achievements and tow their line.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I guess that would mean something if we didn't have so many examples of people with lots of money or degrees etc. that turned out to be LOSERS.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I don't base my opinion on someone on the stuff behind their name or the amount of money they have acquired.

Your problem seems to be that you don't like or trust educated people, or, apparently, people with a lot of money. I mean come on, he thinks he's better than you? This is crazy talk.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

We want a balanced approach that takes into account people before anything else. If it's sound economically then fine. If you have a plan to deal with anybody who might lose their job as a result of changes then fine.

Where's the balance?
"people before eveything else" is not balance. It's a complete disreguard for the environment if it's any inconvenience to people.

You sure you want a balanced approach? or do you want a hands off approach?


Good luck to David in his retirement. This thread illustrates how his mission is impossible and people will never care. Sounds sad, but it's the reality of the world we live in. I guess we might as well enjoy the ride before we hit that wall.
The powers on the gas pedal are too strong to even touch the brakes.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Your problem seems to be that you don't like or trust educated people, or, apparently, people with a lot of money. I mean come on, he thinks he's better than you? This is crazy talk.

Ahh so elitism dosen't exist eh? Just a figment of the common man's imagination? Yep that's some crazy talk with a whole lot of history behind it!!!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Ahh so elitism dosen't exist eh? Just a figment of the common man's imagination? Yep that's some crazy talk with a whole lot of history behind it!!!

Geez, and I thought the last one was crazy talk.

How the hell did we get to "elitism doesn't exist"?

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Where's the balance?
"people before eveything else" is not balance. It's a complete disreguard for the environment if it's any inconvenience to people.

You sure you want a balanced approach? or do you want a hands off approach?


Good luck to David in his retirement. This thread illustrates how his mission is impossible and people will never care. Sounds sad, but it's the reality of the world we live in. I guess we might as well enjoy the ride before we hit that wall.
The powers on the gas pedal are too strong to even touch the brakes.

Yeah I'm sorry but people are more important than flowers buddy. Yes a balance and NO the environment isn't more important that the people that use it. It's something we "manage" and that is it.

Management of resources/environment in a balanced fashion.

Your people will never care is silly -- People care about a whole lot of things to different degrees --- Just most of us aren't out worried about a bunch of freakin plants instead of caring for our spouses, children and those around us as our first priority!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Geez, and I thought the last one was crazy talk.

How the hell did we get to "elitism doesn't exist"?

Geez you are freakin slow. He comes off as an arrogant know it all who drops in and tells us we should clean up our act. If you've never heard that little tidbit about Davy boy then you really don't know much about him. Does he live with us and show us the way by taking the bus(as one little example). NO he plunks himself on his own little island where he takes advantage of the fact he has cash.


Hey give me the cash and I'll buy an island as well and live in a very environmentally caring fashion.

I think I know what's best for you. Now you get out there and make the sacrifices neccessary.

Well he has thrown up his hands and given up on us. Oh well.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Yeah I'm sorry but people are more important than flowers buddy. Yes a balance and NO the environment isn't more important that the people that use it. It's something we "manage" and that is it.

Management of resources/environment in a balanced fashion.

Your people will never care is silly -- People care about a whole lot of things to different degrees --- Just most of us aren't out worried about a bunch of freakin plants instead of caring for our spouses, children and those around us as our first priority!!!!!!!!!!!!

If david suzuki was talking about tulips, you might have a point. Unfortunately for you and your argument, people are not more important than Water, Air and the delicate ecosystems we rely on for our existence.

Please, illuminate me as to how the loss of east and west coast fisheries, the logging industry and prairie agriculture won't harm the common man as much as some environmental policies designed to make these industries sustainable for the future?

I mean, naturally the common man is better served with oil patch subsidies than with clean water. It's self-evident, isn't it?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Geez you are freakin slow. He comes off as an arrogant know it all who drops in and tells us we should clean up our act. If you've never heard that little tidbit about Davy boy then you really don't know much about him. Does he live with us and show us the way by taking the bus(as one little example). NO he plunks himself on his own little island where he takes advantage of the fact he has cash.


Hey give me the cash and I'll buy an island as well and live in a very environmentally caring fashion.

I think I know what's best for you. Now you get out there and make the sacrifices neccessary.

Well he has thrown up his hands and given up on us. Oh well.

Again with the money. What are you, jealous?

I must say, your grasp of what "environmentalism" is about is astonishing.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Geez you are freakin slow. He comes off as an arrogant know it all who drops in and tells us we should clean up our act. If you've never heard that little tidbit about Davy boy then you really don't know much about him. Does he live with us and show us the way by taking the bus(as one little example). NO he plunks himself on his own little island where he takes advantage of the fact he has cash.


Hey give me the cash and I'll buy an island as well and live in a very environmentally caring fashion.

I think I know what's best for you. Now you get out there and make the sacrifices neccessary.

Well he has thrown up his hands and given up on us. Oh well.

You mean when he rides his bike to the ferry terminal to get to the mainland from his environmentally sustainable house?

I have SEEN with my own three eyes this myth of david suzuki on the bus. He rides the #4 from ubc to his house, when he isn't riding his bike or driving his prius. The #4 is even an electric trolley bus for gods sake.

What you might see as an arrogant know it all, most of the rest of canada sees as a 70+ year old biologist who has dedicated his life to the subjects he's 'dropping in' about.

Did you ever think the reason this biologist lives on an island is to maybe...enjoy the natural world around him that has been largely destroyed on the mainland?

BUT OH MY GOD HE WANTS TO SAVE ENDANGERED SPECIES! LOCK HIM UP!

Who needs Spotted Owls and the 27 different species of animal (and the literal hundreds of species of plant) that rely on the owl anyway? What a bunch of saps. It's their own fault if they can't live in destroyed habitat. If owls were so special, they'd live in subsidized housing, am I right?

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Did you actually read the list? Obviously not, unless you lump scientific, literary, broadcasting awards, not to mention the Queen and half the universities in the country under the term "other environmentalists".

What does his living on an island have to do with urban sprawl? I've never been there, but I'd hazard a guess that he's set up slightly more enviro-friendly than 3000 square foot house in Cranston, even if he is on an island.

Scientific = environmental point of view
Literary = Authors, scholars, etc. with an expertise in nature and/or environmentalism. Same goes for the Uni's. I doubt Haskayne will be giving out an honourary degree anytime soon.
broadcasting? are you kidding? Canadian broadcasting awards are given out so regularly its more common to have one than to not.
as for the queen...what's she done for anyone lately? (that could light a spark)




I'm failing to understand how you missed the connection I made between giving lessons on urban sprawl and living on a private island. His main focus during his lectures is efficiency of living so as to limit the distance you need to travel to get to the places you have to go - correct? Now what I'd like to hear him explain is how he got in good enough shape at his eldery age to swim from his island to where he needs to go. Surely he doesn't use any type of motorized vehicle to get to where he's going - at least not based on what what he preaches. Maybe he uses a paddle boat?

This is what I'm talking about when I mentioned the guy has become out of touch with reality. His idea's are revolutionary and he's clearly got a handle on where our world has to turn towards in terms of the environment, however it gets back to the 'practice what you preach' stuff. Why should I do something that someone tells me to when said person does not feel he needs do it himself?

He does see himself as an elite. The above comment basically spells that out...

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Yeah I'm sorry but people are more important than flowers buddy. Yes a balance and NO the environment isn't more important that the people that use it. It's something we "manage" and that is it.

Management of resources/environment in a balanced fashion.

Your people will never care is silly -- People care about a whole lot of things to different degrees --- Just most of us aren't out worried about a bunch of freakin plants instead of caring for our spouses, children and those around us as our first priority!!!!!!!!!!!!

You make the mistake of seperating humans and environment as if they work independently from each other and even conflictingly aginst each other.
It seems you have the idea that environmentalists only care about flowers and not humans.
The realitiy is most of them are concerned about the environment because of the effect it has on our spouses, children and those around us.

For reasons other have already stated, there are important economic/human reasons to take care of the environment and severe economic/human consequences if we don't.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If david suzuki was talking about tulips, you might have a point. Unfortunately for you and your argument, people are not more important than Water, Air and the delicate ecosystems we rely on for our existence.

Please, illuminate me as to how the loss of east and west coast fisheries, the logging industry and prairie agriculture won't harm the common man as much as some environmental policies designed to make these industries sustainable for the future?

I mean, naturally the common man is better served with oil patch subsidies than with clean water. It's self-evident, isn't it?

Your last sentence makes a mockery of your argument. Is it you against the oil companies? Loony environmentalists vrs the rich exploiters. And yes people are more far more important than water or anything else. Of course we need to strike a balance between use of resources, health, the economy and keeping it all rolling along but those are nothing but resources that we(people) use and yes we should maintain them in a proper fashion.

Sorry but those are resources to be managed in a balanced way and for the benefit of ALL. Once again where it makes sense to move ahead then over time those are implemented. Otherwise the shrill rhetoric of the environmentalists belongs on the edge where it serves it's purpose.