I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[Ullr]

Any one notice how Colborne still has 4 points on the season. That was one of the original arguments. hahaha

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The team fluked its way into a playoff position and beat a bad Canucks team int the first round. That, unfortunately, made some fans believe that they were closer to be a contender.

Why is making the 2nd round of the playoffs always looked at so negatively by Flames fans?

Yeah, maybe that team did overachieve and get a lot further then they should have, but it was sure exciting to watch and I also think the players learned a lot about what it takes to win and how hard you have to work to be successful.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I did. Not sure what relevance that has

I didn't think connecting the dots was that hard. People's expectations at the beginning of the season were a bit higher than nearly last in the league, worst PP and PK in the NHL worst goals against. I'd say many including myself were very optimistic.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Cap team doesn't mean great team

Right, so why did they need to sign a couple of PTO's to round out the roster? And then play those guys.

Versteeg hasn't been awful, but Grossmann was. The team has actually been better using their own AHL players.

The useless moves and waste of cash are what annoy fans. Keep building, but don't fire the guy who just won coach of the year.

You know, patience.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

I didn't think connecting the dots was that hard. People's expectations at the beginning of the season were a bit higher than nearly last in the league, worst PP and PK in the NHL worst goals against. I'd say many including myself were very optimistic.

Ok sure. Just reinforces what I said. Fan expectations were out of whack.
And remember i am not disagreeing that they have under performed just any notion that on paper they are "great".

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Why is making the 2nd round of the playoffs always looked at so negatively by Flames fans?

Yeah, maybe that team did overachieve and get a lot further then they should have, but it was sure exciting to watch and I also think the players learned a lot about what it takes to win and how hard you have to work to be successful.

The negative of it was it allowed fans to get way ahead of themselves in terms of where this team is/was.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok sure. Just reinforces what I said. Fan expectations were out of whack.
And remember i am not disagreeing that they have under performed just any notion that on paper they are "great".

Actually no, fan expectations aren't out of whack. Burke and Treliving have been preaching to the fanbase that this is a good team that should compete for a playoff spot. So they're just paying lip service to appease the fans?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Right, so why did they need to sign a couple of PTO's to round out the roster? And then play those guys.

Versteeg hasn't been awful, but Grossmann was. The team has actually been better using their own AHL players.

The useless moves and waste of cash are what annoy fans. Keep building, but don't fire the guy who just won coach of the year.

You know, patience.

Different things. One matters a lot (having the right coach). One barely matters (PTO players on low cap deals).

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Different things. One matters a lot (having the right coach). One barely matters (PTO players on low cap deals).

Sometimes they collide though. Why was the Grossmann deal such wizardry to maximize cap space? Why was it dumb to actually play him?

Sometimes mistakes compound. Chiasson is another.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The negative of it was it allowed fans to get way ahead of themselves in terms of where this team is/was.

To be fair I actually believe the organization also got caught up that as well. I don't think you hand a guy like Brouwer that contract unless you expect to make the playoffs as they are spending to the cap ceiling like a team that believes they are a contender.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Goes back to what I said earlier. Lack of assets. They don't have the assets to make many deals like that

In the 2014 offseason, Brad Treliving signed a 31 year old borderline 3rd pair, realistically #7 right-side defenseman to 2.9 million x 3 years (through age 34)

In the 2014 offseason, Steve Yzerman signed a 28 year old high-end top pair defenseman to 4.5 million x 5 years (through age 33)

In the 2016 offseason, Brad Treliving signed a 31 year old 3rd liner with a power-play worthy right hand shot to 4.5 million x 4 years (through age 35)

In the 2016 offseason, Tim Murray signed a 28 year old bonafide first liner with a power-play worthy right hand shot and playmaking to 6.0 million x 7 years (through age 35)

These are free agent signings. Other GMs are simply getting much better value in the market. Assets got nothing to do with it. Cammalleri was deciding between here and New Jersey, those were his two options. he picked the team willing to give him a fair contract. Treliving lowballs good players and then gives mediocre-to-bad players a blank check.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To be fair I actually believe the organization also got caught up that as well. I don't think you hand a guy like Brouwer that contract unless you expect to make the playoffs as they are spending to the cap ceiling like a team that believes they are a contender.

He also acquired Frolik and Hamilton last off-season, which I interpreted as "win now" moves by the GM. Especially since they had to give up 3 high draft picks just to land Hamilton.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To be fair I actually believe the organization also got caught up that as well. I don't think you hand a guy like Brouwer that contract unless you expect to make the playoffs as they are spending to the cap ceiling like a team that believes they are a contender.

Brouwer was brought in for veteran leadership, playoff experience and all.

The patience angle is weak, I've got more than the GM does. I was willing to see one more season of Hartley with some upgraded goalies.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

He also acquired Frolik and Hamilton last off-season, which I interpreted as "win now" moves by the GM. Especially since they had to give up 3 high draft picks just to land Hamilton.

ok, they gave up a mid-1st round pick and two 2nds for a defenceman with 1st pairing possession numbers who just turned 22

that's smart asset management

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

ok, they gave up a mid-1st round pick and two 2nds for a defenceman with 1st pairing possession numbers who just turned 22

that's smart asset management

Especially considering that in that 2nd round, they still got two promising defense prospects as well

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

ok, they gave up a mid-1st round pick and two 2nds for a defenceman with 1st pairing possession numbers who just turned 22

that's smart asset management

Don't disagree with you, just pointing out the fact that Treliving decided to go the quicker route by acquiring Hamilton instead of drafting and developing the picks.

[Ashasx]

i don't think that signals a win now mode at all. There was a very low chance the 15th overall pick in the draft would be as good as Hamilton, and wouldn't be much younger.

[zamler]

If you spend to the cap and don't have the expectation of making the playoffs what the heck are you doing? Is the plan to stay the course and next season or the next the team will gel and become a force?

I don't know what the "process" is supposed to be but right now it looks bleak.

[vanisleflamesfan]

I think that it is hilarious that people keep using the word "rebuild", as if that has some meaning here. Let's have a quick look at Treliving's summer work:

07/01/16 – Signed Troy Brouwer - 31 years old, career high points: 43

End of Oilers Training camp – Signed Kris Versteeg – 30 years old, career high points 53, 5 seasons ago.

06/27/16 – Traded Patrick Sieloff (age 22, NHL experience 1 game) for Alex Chiasson age 26, career high points: 35

These are NOT the work of a GM thinking about a "rebuild". These moves are the work of a GM working on adding complementary pieces for a contender. Clearly (at least to me) Trevliving grossly overestimated the team he had assembled, and clearly, he thought that the Flames "rebuild" was completed.

But ultimately, the results are plain to see to anyone who looks at the standings. Treliving messed up and now, Oilers style, we are stuck with re-starting a 'rebuild' under a new GM (whenever the owners recognize this and actually make the right moves). In short, we are in for at least 6 more years of misery.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

In the 2014 offseason, Brad Treliving signed a 31 year old borderline 3rd pair, realistically #7 right-side defenseman to 2.9 million x 3 years (through age 34)

In the 2014 offseason, Steve Yzerman signed a 28 year old high-end top pair defenseman to 4.5 million x 5 years (through age 33)

In the 2016 offseason, Brad Treliving signed a 31 year old 3rd liner with a power-play worthy right hand shot to 4.5 million x 4 years (through age 35)

In the 2016 offseason, Tim Murray signed a 28 year old bonafide first liner with a power-play worthy right hand shot and playmaking to 6.0 million x 7 years (through age 35)

These are free agent signings. Other GMs are simply getting much better value in the market. Assets got nothing to do with it. Cammalleri was deciding between here and New Jersey, those were his two options. he picked the team willing to give him a fair contract. Treliving lowballs good players and then gives mediocre-to-bad players a blank check.

Okposo has all kinds of red flags. Playing with Tavares (recent examples are Moulson and Parenteau), compete issues in the past, long stretches of inconsistency and having to pay him a top liner salary. Signing Okposo means the Flames have absolutely no wiggle room at all. Brouwer will likely get 35-42 pts this season and is a warrior when the going gets tough.