I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[JiriHrdina]

I don't think he did.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Don't lowball a top 10 scorer out of the gates? Don't sign fa wingers to 4.5/year if they aren't top line players?

He didn't

[killer_carlson]

I think BT deserves a lot of heat right now, but the Gaudreau contract and aftermath is entirely on the player and his agent.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What could have BT done differently to accelerate the Johnny contract. The leverage and pressure occurred exactly when it logically would have.
The only thing he could have done would have been to give into the players' demands.

We've seen management teams set contract deadlines in the past, if a player wants to see the ice that season. Why not here? We were coming off of a horrible season that had a horrible start, had a brand new coaching staff that was preaching entirely new systems, and had to find a new RW for Gaudreau's line. All of that considered, it was not okay for Gaudreau to show up 18hrs prior to game #1.

Treliving had every reason to draw a line in the sand for when a contract needed to be signed, but he didn't.

[Enoch Root]

Gaudreau made some comments after signing that made it pretty clear that the strategy, from his camp, was to wait until the last day before the regular season, in order to extract the most pressure they could, without him actually missing any regular season games.

That was going to play out as it did, regardless of what Treliving did.

If his initial offer was $7M, Gaudreau's camp would have simply waited to try and get $8M (or more).

If that was their strategy, Treliving's hands were tied from the get-go.

And sadly, that impacted his ability to make other off-season moves. In other words, Gaudreau's strategy had a real and negativeimpact on the team.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

We've seen management teams set contract deadlines in the past, if a player wants to see the ice that season. Why not here? We were coming off of a horrible season that had a horrible start, had a brand new coaching staff that was preaching entirely new systems, and had to find a new RW for Gaudreau's line. All of that considered, it was not okay for Gaudreau to show up 18hrs prior to game #1.

Treliving had every reason to draw a line in the sand for when a contract needed to be signed, but he didn't.

Did any of the teams with high profile RFAs do this? If thats easy than why don't teams simply just do that?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What could have BT done differently to accelerate the Johnny contract. The leverage and pressure occurred exactly when it logically would have.
The only thing he could have done would have been to give into the players' demands.

I hear you and I do agree.

Maybe BT just had too many irons in the fire during the off season to focus on the negotiations? Not sure but I still think the agent and BT could have worked on an earlier timeline for getting things done. I know it was mentioned that this agent has a history of dragging out negotiations. Some prior deadlines to try get things done before the season started might have helped speed things up. I am sure BT's/Johnny's commitment to the WCH (an important lesson here) didn't help and then there were non negotiation period the agent complained about.

Sometimes such as with meetings, timelines to get things done can help speed up a process.

[JiriHrdina]

The leverage points were going to happen when they did. Any effort to accelerate would basically require one side to give in more or earlier. An arbitrary timeline on paper with no actual leverage would have had no impact

[AltaGuy]

Gaudreau signing delay was not Treliving's fault at all. In the grand scheme of things, went well with minimal impact. I blame neither party - just a tough negotiation.

Treliving deserves to be roasted for many errors the past couple years; that was not one of them.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Gaudreau made some comments after signing that made it pretty clear that the strategy, from his camp, was to wait until the last day before the regular season, in order to extract the most pressure they could, without him actually missing any regular season games.

That was going to play out as it did, regardless of what Treliving did.

If his initial offer was $7M, Gaudreau's camp would have simply waited to try and get $8M (or more).

If that was their strategy, Treliving's hands were tied from the get-go.

And sadly, that impacted his ability to make other off-season moves. In other words, Gaudreau's strategy had a real and negativeimpact on the team.

Good points here, still this whole process did not help the team. Organization needs to find a way of making it so that negotiations do not drag into getting the team ready for the season. Something that didn't help the player or the coaches get ready for the start of the season.

[MarkGio]

The WCH probably was leverage for Johnny. It's one thing when you're missing camp and sitting at home, it's another when you're distracted by some key hockey games

[Stay Golden]

Treliving and his ego took an entertaining brand of hockey and squashed it all because he wanted his "own" hire. Well Brad you got your wish. Like the results. I remember a time long ago umm no wait it was last season that under Hartley win or lose this was a damn fun team to watch at the Dome.
Treliving has taken what was an exciting style of hockey and squashed it.
I hope the players absolutely continue to stink out the joint and force Treliving to fire this abomination. Then just like Treliving said at the Hartley firing presser. He should be held accountable on the success of the next hire.
I want to see just how long Treliving tortures and fragments the fan base keeping Gulutzan.
Treliving just because he has screwed the coaching hires so badly should be fired after this season.
He had a HC that was creating a buzz with his players and the fans but all Treliving wanted was his own guy.
Well shove Gulutzan boring disorganized losses up your turkey baster Brad.

[Erick Estrada]

Treliving signed Brouwer and Frolik to over $8 million a season which are moves in free agency you expect of a team attempting to make the playoffs. However he hired a head coach that doesn't have a track record of team building or making the playoffs. Seems like a really big leap of faith and one that has blown up in his face. I hate to say this but Carlyle would have been better as at least he has won a cup and has faced a lot of adversity. Right now you can tell Gulutzan has no answer for what's going on right now and it's snowballing on him. It's anyone's guess when they will win a game again as it's probably going to take an opponent that has an incredibly bad night given the Flames level of compete right now.

[Young_Guns]

Maybe Gulutzan turns out, but at this point it that doesn't look likely. The team is the first in the league to 10 regulation losses... Did the Flames ever show any serious interest in guys like Boudreau, Carlysle, or even Marc Crawford? I think all of them were better candidates as head coach.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Treliving and his ego took an entertaining brand of hockey and squashed it all because he wanted his "own" hire. Well Brad you got your wish. Like the results. I remember a time long ago umm no wait it was last season that under Hartley win or lose this was a damn fun team to watch at the Dome.
Treliving has taken what was an exciting style of hockey and squashed it.
I hope the players absolutely continue to stink out the joint and force Treliving to fire this abomination. Then just like Treliving said at the Hartley firing presser. He should be held accountable on the success of the next hire.
I want to see just how long Treliving tortures and fragments the fan base keeping Gulutzan.
Treliving just because he has screwed the coaching hires so badly should be fired after this season.
He had a HC that was creating a buzz with his players and the fans but all Treliving wanted was his own guy.
Well shove Gulutzan boring disorganized losses up your turkey baster Brad.

It's times like this I really miss having the ability to vote down a post.

Stay Golden, we all know you've been a strong proponent of Hartley, and very anti-Treliving since Hartley was released, but this post went too far (just my opinion).

Let me agree with you first. Yes, Hartley's system was a blast to watch... two years ago. Last year not so much as teams had figured out how to get in the way of that breakout bomb pass, and it was nowhere near as successful as the previous season.

It was fun for a while, but was never going to get us to a cup.

Was Gulutzan the right hire? Still too early to tell in my opinion. Was keeping all the assistants (who are supposed to be responsible for the special teams) and only firing the head coach (who was preventing the assistants from doing their style of special teams) the right call? Maybe not.

Either way, between the top line missing the preseason, a rookie head coach having to learn all his players, trying to implement his original systems, and now (hopefully) tuning them to adjust to the players here, this certainly had the chance to be an off-year.

The fan base - on the whole - isn't what you'd call happy, and we have every right to be.

That being said, I'd love to see a little more rationality and a little less vehemence than shown in the above post.


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[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What could have BT done differently to accelerate the Johnny contract. The leverage and pressure occurred exactly when it logically would have.
The only thing he could have done would have been to give into the players' demands.

From what I understand, the Islanders don't negotiate with anyone once training camp starts. That could have been an option. Not sure it would have been the best option, but an option none the less.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

Maybe Gulutzan turns out, but at this point it that doesn't look likely. The team is the first in the league to 10 regulation losses... Did the Flames ever show any serious interest in guys like Boudreau, Carlysle, or even Marc Crawford? I think all of them were better candidates as head coach.

i think they went for the cheap hire, BB gets paid quite well if i recall. i think that has something to do with it

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

i think they went for the cheap hire, BB gets paid quite well if i recall. i think that has something to do with it

I don't think so. It would make ZERO sense for an organization to spend $70mil a year on player salaries, including paying players not to play, in the hopes of becoming a contender, then to stop at a $2mil coach and go "No, that's enough! No more money being spent, the $900k coach will do, even if it destroys everything we've built with the other $70mil".

C'mon man, why would you think that's what happened?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't think so. It would make ZERO sense for an organization to spend $70mil a year on player salaries, including paying players not to play, in the hopes of becoming a contender, then to stop at a $2mil coach and go "No, that's enough! No more money being spent, the $900k coach will do, even if it destroys everything we've built with the other $70mil".

C'mon man, why would you think that's what happened?

You can spend $70 million on a roster but if you cheap out on the head coach you could get exactly what the Flames are now. If that was the case then it appears the Flames biggest issue would be ownership and not management, coaching, or players. I simply don't believe they would limit the GM's ability to hire a coach based on money as that would be incredibly shortsighted as coaching matters as much as talent.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

. When GG was hired it was a complete headscratcher.

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

It sure reeked of an Oiler-esque "We're smarter than you are" move

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That's my issue. "We see something in this guy that no one else does". This team does not have to have the leadership or mental toughness to handle a teaching or nice guy coach. Makes me nervous about how well management understands what they have.

Sorry, how does this make senses whatsoever?

Gulutzen was a head coach previously in the NHL, he was an NHL assistant coach at the time of his hiring. This was a pretty standard hiring, Gulutzen is a young guy but I'm not understanding what you guys are seeing here.

There was a plethora of candidates, Gulutzen was one of them. Not seeing the smartest-guys-in-the-room stuff you are.