[PGT] Nadir: Part II! Flames lose 5-1 to Chicago

[madmike]

Originally Posted by jroc

Not to be a Monahan apologist, because I agree, he certainly has been bad... But are people forgetting he missed almost all of training camp with a bad back? Perhaps he's still not 100%?

If he's not 100% he either shouldn't be playing or he should be getting back into game shape on the 3rd or 4th line. Right now he's killing the team with his awful play and first line icetime.

I really think it's time for Bennett on the top line.

[442scotty]

From what I saw, Johnny is trying too hard, Monahan needs to play with someone else for a while just to grow his own game instead of chasing/ following Johnny around, passing team wise is still way off, Bennett needs to stop taking penalties... It was an iffy one but he didn't need to go for a hit at that point in a tight game, Gio and Brodie need to be together and if the other defence needs work bring up someone or trade or whatever.... If it ain't broke don't fix it...

And surely there must be a way to fix the power play! OMG! Get a new power play coach and find players who can do the Ove/Cammy one timer and someone who knows how to deflect/tip in pucks... Surely they must have someone in the organization to fill these needs!

[Monahan For Mayor]

Kane dive can't be defended. That was horrible! He has a soft Wack in the leg... Why would that cause both his lags to stop moving ? Haha. When you are running from 2nd to 3rd and the ball hits you, you keep running.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by FBI

How many minuses for our -8 guys are EN goals?

That is a good question. Unfortunately, I don't know where that information would be recorded, short of searching up all of this season's empty net goals. It could tell a different story.

Still, looking at the Flames' stats, while Gaudreau, Monahan, and Brodie are all -8, the next three worst +/- players are Grossman, Bouma, and Giordano all at -1.

Even accounting for the fact that the Flames' top line is playing against opposition top lines more than anyone else on the team, it looks like they are getting outplayed. It has certainly seemed that way to me in the games I have seen. Gaudreau and Monahan just look lost defensively, especially on the occasions where there is a turn-over in the offensive zone first.

[SuperMatt18]

I kind of want to see Monahan play with more physical linemates for a little bit to see if it awakens that part of his game a little bit.

Maybe-

Ferland - Monahan - Brouwer

or

Tkachuk - Monahan - Ferland

Monahan played a much more North-South and physical game when he was in the OHL.

I feel like his last couple season with Gaudreau and Hudler have turned him into a less physical and more East-West type of player.

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

Kane dive can't be defended. That was horrible! He has a soft Wack in the leg... Why would that cause both his lags to stop moving ? Haha. When you are running from 2nd to 3rd and the ball hits you, you keep running.

Monahan...again, disagree...look at it again, if you can...it WASN'T a "soft Wack", it was a straight up SPEAR to the knee, and frankly, spearing should have been the more correct call, moreover, spinning up the boards and getting the shove to the leg that had the bulk of his weight, would be enough to put most guys off balance...

but as I said before, THAT call cost your guys two minutes, and little more, as the 'Hawks failed on that PP...

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Monahan...again, disagree...look at it again, if you can...it WASN'T a "soft Wack", it was a straight up SPEAR to the knee, and frankly, spearing should have been the more correct call, moreover, spinning up the boards and getting the shove to the leg that had the bulk of his weight, would be enough to put most guys off balance...

but as I said before, THAT call cost your guys two minutes, and little more, as the 'Hawks failed on that PP...

Holy over-reaction Batman. It was not a straight up SPEAR to the knee.

[Magnum PEI]

They showed multiple replays of it last night. One angle it looked like a slight whack to the shinpad. The others it looked like a bit of a spear, or more of jab. I don't think it was a penalty even if Kane didn't dive. NHL players are expected to fend off stuff like that.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Holy over-reaction Batman. It was not a straight up SPEAR to the knee.

No.. he's more right than wrong. It was more of a push with the stick blade to the back of the knee which is technically spearing.

I do however disagree that Kane couldn't have kept upright and continued on on. He's arguably the best skater in the league.

After the missed late hit call at the Flames blue line, Kane decided to start going down pretty easily.

[Flash Walken]

It was a penalty on Monahan.

The flames were fortunate Giordano didn't get a holding the stick infraction that was seriously blatant.

The officiating was fine. If Gaudreau tried to sell penalties less he'd get the benefit of the doubt more.

Hamilton has a great demeanour with the refs after a questionable call.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I kind of want to see Monahan play with more physical linemates for a little bit to see if it awakens that part of his game a little bit.

Maybe-

Ferland - Monahan - Brouwer

or

Tkachuk - Monahan - Ferland

Monahan played a much more North-South and physical game when he was in the OHL.

I feel like his last couple season with Gaudreau and Hudler have turned him into a less physical and more East-West type of player.

I could live with his skating deficiencies if he could develop a heavy game down low and along the boards. He needs to add one aspect or another though as just being the guy with a good wrister isn't going to cut it in todays NHL IMO.

[flamesforcup]

Honestly u cant blame Gaudreau for trying "too hard" when his linemates are so bad.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Honestly u cant blame Gaudreau for trying "too hard" when his linemates are so bad.

I'm sorry, but that is just garbage.

None of his linemates are forcing him to give away the puck cheaply.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I'm sorry, but that is just garbage.

None of his linemates are forcing him to give away the puck cheaply.

Well Gaudreau hasnt exactly been a world beater either but when the plays dying on both ur linemates sticks each time u tend to try and do everything urself.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It was a penalty on Monahan.

The flames were fortunate Giordano didn't get a holding the stick infraction that was seriously blatant.

The officiating was fine. If Gaudreau tried to sell penalties less he'd get the benefit of the doubt more.

Hamilton has a great demeanour with the refs after a questionable call.

I agree it was a a blatant holding the stick, but a slew foot is what caused the whole pile up to start with.

Bottom line, you play a game like that you will win more than you lose as they still got some good chances. All they need to do is keep with that effort and get the first line going. Once they start getting some goals the results will be similar to recent STL win.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree it was a a blatant holding the stick, but a slew foot is what caused the whole pile up to start with.

Bottom line, you play a game like that you will win more than you lose as they still got some good chances. All they need to do is keep with that effort and get the first line going. Once they start getting some goals the results will be similar to recent STL win.

I was going to say that - Gio held the stick, but only because he was clearly taken down.

I thought they killed penalties really well - until they didn't at a crucial time.

[FBI]

I think Johnny has a - for every EN goal so that's -3 in real hockey I guess.

[genetic_phreek]

Gaudreau is struggling but will snap out of it eventually. He's too talented. Nobody could deny Gio's work ethic. Dumb plays or not, he's all out all the time which is appreciated for an athlete getting millions. These days guys coast with that big payday.

We'll bounce back (I hope)

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Didn't see all of the game last night, but saw 4 Chicago goals, and it looked like the same old garbage. The way I see it, here's the problem (stats are for the whole season)

Gaudreau -8
Monahan -8

Not only are they not scoring, they have become huge defensive liabilities. Monahan has been a pylon in his own end, and Johnny gets burned by larger forwards constantly.

No change = No Playoffs

Brodie at -8 is also an issue, obviously.

Backlund/Frolik/X looks way more like a top line right now.

And for the final day-after-meltdown drama: I think Gulutzan needs to sit Johnny for a game and Mony for another. Calm them down, have them observe the system, see how things go when they are separated.

This is a good assessment, because this is the NHL and you can only tinker for so long before we fall too far back on the standings. We need our best players to be our best players. It's unfortunate because those 2 guys just got big paychecks but are not effectively driving the top line. If we had Crosby playing our team he would be playing at such a high level his wingers would need to keep up while he plays like he "wills" his team to win. Now I realize Sid Crosby is not a fair comparison but it drives home the point that your top line- players need to be your best players. Monahan does not look like a center that drives that line, right now he looking more like a complementary player. I think he is capable but maybe his back is still bothering him?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree it was a a blatant holding the stick, but a slew foot is what caused the whole pile up to start with.

Bottom line, you play a game like that you will win more than you lose as they still got some good chances. All they need to do is keep with that effort and get the first line going. Once they start getting some goals the results will be similar to recent STL win.

I thought they played just 'okay'.

Part of playing well is finishing as well as making the right plays at the right times, and in that arena I thought the flames had critical breakdowns of mental discipline.

It's a game you can build on but there was a lot of badness outside of Backlund and Frolik and Elliott. Turnovers continue to haunt the Flames and Gaudreau has been notorious for them so far this season.