[PGT] Nadir: Part II! Flames lose 5-1 to Chicago

[Mr.Coffee]

Tough to blame Cameron though when they can't even get set up. I hardly know what the power play is supposed to look like. Pretty sure zone entry shouldn't be this hard and I'd fault the players for that.

[Go_Flames4ever]

The PP is just atrocious. It has only looked dangerous maybe what 2-3 times this whole season out of 40+ chances.

Special teams ranked at bottom 3 in both categories, that is just unacceptable especially with how that was one of the main focus for this season as per our GM.

And another empty net goal against...that's an empty net goal against in EVERY ONE of our regulation loss this season WTF! I guess that's just an extension of our piss poor powerplay - no pressure, no setup, and opponents getting out of the zone easily from bad decisions.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Tough to blame Cameron though when they can't even get set up. I hardly know what the power play is supposed to look like. Pretty sure zone entry shouldn't be this hard and I'd fault the players for that.

Dave Cameron, hired to not coach so the players can struggle. Makes sense.

[Mister Yamoto]

They are lucky to be 4-6-1. The loser point in the Canucks game was because of an own goal, they were outplayed by the Sabres but somehow won, and it took a 5 bell save by Elliott in the dying seconds against Chicago to avoid a regulation loss.

This is a bad team. I highly doubt they are a couple of line combo adjustments away from turning this around.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Who counts these things? This is why I don't respect advanced stats. Flames did not have 23 scoring chances the entire game let alone only at ES.

Agreed.

The team marches on...10 games in and we're still "failing execute" as Gully puts it.

Giordano - Brodie should be reunited. The lack of speed in our transition game is severely limiting our ability to create space through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone. Engelland is a great warrior, but he should be on a bottom pairing with Kulak, and I just fail to see what Wideman brings to the fold. Sure, he's better than last year...but he's still not good.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Tough to blame Cameron though when they can't even get set up. I hardly know what the power play is supposed to look like. Pretty sure zone entry shouldn't be this hard and I'd fault the players for that.

Cameron coached the Sens powerplay last year too, all the way to 26th overall.

He's not a good special teams coach and has no background of ever being one.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Dave Cameron, hired to not coach so the players can struggle. Makes sense.

That's not what I wrote?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

They are lucky to be 4-6-1. The loser point in the Canucks game was because of an own goal, they were outplayed by the Sabres but somehow won, and it took a 5 bell save by Elliott in the dying seconds against Chicago to avoid a regulation loss.

This is a bad team. I highly doubt they are a couple of line combo adjustments away from turning this around.

They were not outplayed by the Sabres. They just sucked less than them.

[Joborule]

I really think it's time Bennett plays with Gaudreau. Him with Monahan isn't working.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I agree. Everyone loves the buzzwords. Unsustainable. Corsi. Fenwick. PDO. When you're routinely winning the advanced stat battle but losing the games, there's a huge disconnect there. It's easy to say we've just been unlucky and eventually with the law of averages we'll start getting more wins but it sure doesn't look like a team that should have a winning record.

most analysis done on the flames so far has them looking pretty . They are so bad defensively, and on special teams, that just the pure shot numbers outchancing an opponent at even strength doesn't mean they played a good game.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That's not what I wrote?

You said it's hard to blame the special teams coach for the special teams being bad.

I said they must have just hired Cameron to look cool. Like Craig Hartsburg.

It's bad coaching man.

[Wiggum_PI]

I'm still having a hard time understanding what Gulutzan is trying to accomplish with these D pairings. I know both Brodie and Gio are struggling right now, but I still think they should play together. It's been suggested here tons of times, but just seems to make the most sense.

Gio-Brodie
Hamilton-Jokipakka
Wideman-Engelland

Or maybe they should go with Wideman-Grossmann 3rd pairing.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Problem is advanced stats guys then use these stats for a different meaning and use them in arguments.

Flames played a pretty good all around game except for the obvious few top players but if they're counting 23 chances to score then the system is flawed.

Maybe you are just overreacting to the word scoring chance. A scoring chance is a chance from an area (home plate) that has about a 1/5 to 1/10 chance of beating a goalie (if it doesn't otherwise miss) (which is even lower against Crawford, whose 5v5 SV% this year BEFORE tonight was 100% on medium danger shots and 91.67% on high danger - last year's Vezina winner in the same stats 93.56% / 82.41%). We're not talking about picture perfect tic-tac-toe chances that are locks to go in so long as no one flubs it.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

Gio needs a serious gut check moment if he is going to lead the flames out of this mess. Too many mistakes from a lapse of judgement and that shot at the end was a cherry on top.

Engelland should not be playing next game after that god awful pinch, not picking up his guy on the PK and playing Kane on the 2 on 1 like he had never played hockey before. All 3 ended up in the back of our net.

Simple solution ... Giordano-Brodie, Hamilton-Jokkipaka, play Engellend and Wideman in very sheltered situations as the 3rd pair, preferably playing Kulak instead of either one.

Gio can quit compensating for playing with a pylon, and Brodie can get back to his offside where he excelled for the past 2 seasons. Engellend and Wideman on the ice less will result in less goals against.

Until the coaching staff capitulates and goes back to our successful D-pairs from last season, we are doomed to lose more than we win.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe you are just overreacting to the word scoring chance. A scoring chance is a chance from an area (home plate) that has about a 1/5 to 1/10 chance of scoring (which is even lower against Crawford, whose 5v5 SV% this year BEFORE tonight was 100% on medium danger shots and 91.67% on high danger - last year's Vezina winner in the same stats 93.56% / 82.41%). We're not talking about picture perfect tic-tac-toe chances that are locks to go in so long as no one flubs it.

Well then how did the Hawks only have 6? Those stats are honestly garbage and mean nothing when whoever is counting them must have been drunk. It doesn't matter where they were counting them from the Flames didn't get 4 times as many "chances".

And like I said, my biggest problem is the way people use these stats in arguments when they really mean nothing.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I really think it's time Bennett plays with Gaudreau. Him with Monahan isn't working.

2 puck hogs on one line. Seems logical.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

PK - 28th
PP - 29th

Basically throwing the season away if that continues.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

2 puck hogs on one line. Seems logical.

Sounds like a good possession line

[dieHARDflameZ]

If you can keep your combined PP and PK % above 100, it's a recipe for success. Currently the Flames sit at 82.1%. That is beyond pathetic.

[Wiggum_PI]

Here's another great stat, the Flames are 30th in the league in goals against with 39 so far.

When Hartley was fired, Burke specifically stated that the goals against and powerplay last year were unacceptable, and were a big reason for the teams failure.

This new coaching staff hasn't improved these areas at all since being hired, they better get things figured out fast.