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Old 10-06-2016, 10:19 PM   #3981
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Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful View Post
That's right, snark it up and don't address the salient points.

1. The NDP claimed infrastructure spending would create jobs. I guess they were careful to specify that they weren't Alberta jobs.
2. The government is spending money that they don't have to hire out of province companies. What a fantastic plan, let's go further in to debt sending money outside of Alberta.
Just to be clear though, that's a popular rumour among a lot of guys I talk to in the industry. I could go through the tender list to confirm it, but that's a lot of detective work.

All I know is my guys are deathly slow at the moment for the amount of money supposedly being spent.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:12 AM   #3982
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You're really starting to come around as far as your contributions to the topic are concerned

Edit: nice try with your ninja edit
I missed a code ]
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:00 AM   #3983
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Just to be clear though, that's a popular rumour among a lot of guys I talk to in the industry. I could go through the tender list to confirm it, but that's a lot of detective work.

All I know is my guys are deathly slow at the moment for the amount of money supposedly being spent.
We already know Notley and the NDP hire their own staff from outside the province. And she seems to spend more time outside Alberta promoting herself rather than her province, so the rumour isn't exactly far-fetched.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:27 AM   #3984
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This is a bit of an I told you so in the minimum wage debate. Justin won't even mandate a minimum wage hike because of not having "the right conditions to succeed". His own government's "secret" study says it's not likely to have the desired effect....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fede...deau-1.3796315
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Old 10-08-2016, 08:49 AM   #3985
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"Bluntly, the government has not thought through the implications of the implementation of their levy — and they need to," he said.
The City of Calgary has been working to reduce its environmental footprint for years, but it will still feel the impact of the carbon tax, he said.
"So we're doing all the things that we were supposed to do, all the things that the carbon levy is supposed to provide incentives to do. Yet, we're being dinged, because we still have to run buses, and fire trucks, and police cars and garbage trucks."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...797256?cmp=rss

It's funny(in a sad way) that you can replace a few words here and there and it becomes about citizens and their expenses.
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Old 10-08-2016, 05:55 PM   #3986
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...797256?cmp=rss

It's funny(in a sad way) that you can replace a few words here and there and it becomes about citizens and their expenses.
Thats right. And like the city, what else can I do to cut back? Our home is not large for a family , 1200 sqft, its 3 years old so the windows, furnace, doors,insulation is as good as it gets. Every bulb in the house is LED, the furnace is on a programmable thermostat, the garage isn't heated, our car is a newer 4 cylinder. What else do we do Rachel, live in a teepee in the woods? There is no way out of this tax for us, I see it as a tax on life at the moment.
I doubt very much the rebates are going to cover all the increased costs we will see trickle down through goods and services.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:28 PM   #3987
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Thats right. And like the city, what else can I do to cut back? Our home is not large for a family , 1200 sqft, its 3 years old so the windows, furnace, doors,insulation is as good as it gets. Every bulb in the house is LED, the furnace is on a programmable thermostat, the garage isn't heated, our car is a newer 4 cylinder. What else do we do Rachel, live in a teepee in the woods? There is no way out of this tax for us, I see it as a tax on life at the moment.
I doubt very much the rebates are going to cover all the increased costs we will see trickle down through goods and services.
Sounds like you will be as minimally impacted by this as possible. There's always more that can be done but with how angry you are about this I would have thought you drove a hummer and lived in the least energy efficient home imaginable. If most Albertans made the choices you've made as far as living environmentally responsibly they would have introduced a pst or something of that ilk rather than a tax that will have the most impact on those driving gas guzzling SUVs or making life choices that in other ways that are bad for the environment.

The tax sucks, but I find it funny that even with all this notice most Albertans chose to spend their time complaining rather than use the time until it is introduced to make some changes like making their home more energy efficient or switching to a more fuel economy friendly car. So that they wouldn't notice the tax as much, maybe even not notice it at all, or God forbid they actually might come out ahead, simply by doing things they should already have been doing.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:44 PM   #3988
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Sounds like you will be as minimally impacted by this as possible. There's always more that can be done but with how angry you are about this I would have thought you drove a hummer and lived in the least energy efficient home imaginable. If most Albertans made the choices you've made as far as living environmentally responsibly they would have introduced a pst or something of that ilk rather than a tax that will have the most impact on those driving gas guzzling SUVs or making life choices that in other ways that are bad for the environment.

The tax sucks, but I find it funny that even with all this notice most Albertans chose to spend their time complaining rather than use the time until it is introduced to make some changes like making their home more energy efficient or switching to a more fuel economy friendly car. So that they wouldn't notice the tax as much, maybe even not notice it at all, or God forbid they actually might come out ahead, simply by doing things they should already have been doing.
It costs money to make things more energy or fuel efficent. In an econmy like this I doubt many Albertans have the spare cash to do that. I know I don't.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:53 PM   #3989
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Sounds like you will be as minimally impacted by this as possible. There's always more that can be done but with how angry you are about this I would have thought you drove a hummer and lived in the least energy efficient home imaginable. If most Albertans made the choices you've made as far as living environmentally responsibly they would have introduced a pst or something of that ilk rather than a tax that will have the most impact on those driving gas guzzling SUVs or making life choices that in other ways that are bad for the environment.

The tax sucks, but I find it funny that even with all this notice most Albertans chose to spend their time complaining rather than use the time until it is introduced to make some changes like making their home more energy efficient or switching to a more fuel economy friendly car. So that they wouldn't notice the tax as much, maybe even not notice it at all, or God forbid they actually might come out ahead, simply by doing things they should already have been doing.
That second paragraph is rich. Those things aren't going to offset the tax. The problem is that for most Albertans heating their houses is a necessity and that is one of the biggest impacts. Making your home more energy efficient isn't just a quick little switch to flip either, and to make real meaningful impacts is going to costs thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:56 PM   #3990
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That second paragraph is rich. Those things aren't going to offset the tax. The problem is that for most Albertans heating their houses is a necessity and that is one of the biggest impacts. Making your home more energy efficient isn't just a quick little switch to flip either, and to make real meaningful impacts is going to costs thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands.
Even if they did, what little energy they use for essentials will still cost more. Same with costs of essential goods. Sure, people under $51k get a "rebate", but that's still going to hammer the middle class.

Its a simply asinine policy that has failed in other countries (see Australia), but I expect no less from Notley and Trudeau.

At least consumption taxes tend to exempt necessary goods and services.

Last edited by Thunderball; 10-08-2016 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:30 PM   #3991
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It costs money to make things more energy or fuel efficent. In an econmy like this I doubt many Albertans have the spare cash to do that. I know I don't.
That may be true for some Albertans, but not all. I know people who work office jobs who drive pickup trucks. Heck I know some who are out of work and keep their trucks and drive around with them daily, all the while complaining about how tough things are financially. If I bring up trading in their trucks for something more efficient most respond with saying they like their truck and don't want to get something else. Remember these are people who do do not use these vehicles for anything other than leisure. I sympathize with those who are struggling, it's a very difficult time right now, but I won't make excuses for those who are actively making it harder on themselves.

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That second paragraph is rich. Those things aren't going to offset the tax. The problem is that for most Albertans heating their houses is a necessity and that is one of the biggest impacts. Making your home more energy efficient isn't just a quick little switch to flip either, and to make real meaningful impacts is going to costs thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands.
Saving money on energy bills or at the pump wouldn't help offset a tax? I would love to hear your mathematical explanation for that one. Yes heating a home is a necessity for most Albertans(I consider it one for all Albertans but for the sake of argument I'll go with what you said) changing a furnace costs money yes, but if you are trying to argue that the energy savings are minimal after an upgrade, well you're just wrong. I just moved into a newly built green certified home from an older bungalow and the monthly savings on my utility bills are in literally in the hundreds.

I'm not suggesting everyone should just go out and make massive investments they can't afford, but I do believe there are more people out there who can do something than who can't, and if more of those people actually did have some work done on their homes it would give the local economy a bit of a boost and also save them money in the long run, tax or no tax.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:37 PM   #3992
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Sounds like you will be as minimally impacted by this as possible. There's always more that can be done but with how angry you are about this I would have thought you drove a hummer and lived in the least energy efficient home imaginable. If most Albertans made the choices you've made as far as living environmentally responsibly they would have introduced a pst or something of that ilk rather than a tax that will have the most impact on those driving gas guzzling SUVs or making life choices that in other ways that are bad for the environment.
How we live wasn't an environmental choice really, more financial. I am a class one truck driver, so we are not exactly swimming in cash as it is. We live like we do to give us some breathing room on the finances, what makes me angry is the government finding ways to use up said room, when they constantly claim to be doing things that are supposed to benefit people and families in our tax bracket. What do I cut next, maybe the gymnastics class the kids are in?
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:46 PM   #3993
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That may be true for some Albertans, but not all. I know people who work office jobs who drive pickup trucks. Heck I know some who are out of work and keep their trucks and drive around with them daily, all the while complaining about how tough things are financially. If I bring up trading in their trucks for something more efficient most respond with saying they like their truck and don't want to get something else. Remember these are people who do do not use these vehicles for anything other than leisure. I sympathize with those who are struggling, it's a very difficult time right now, but I won't make excuses for those who are actively making it harder on themselves.



Saving money on energy bills or at the pump wouldn't help offset a tax? I would love to hear your mathematical explanation for that one. Yes heating a home is a necessity for most Albertans(I consider it one for all Albertans but for the sake of argument I'll go with what you said) changing a furnace costs money yes, but if you are trying to argue that the energy savings are minimal after an upgrade, well you're just wrong. I just moved into a newly built green certified home from an older bungalow and the monthly savings on my utility bills are in literally in the hundreds.

I'm not suggesting everyone should just go out and make massive investments they can't afford, but I do believe there are more people out there who can do something than who can't, and if more of those people actually did have some work done on their homes it would give the local economy a bit of a boost and also save them money in the long run, tax or no tax.
I don't even know where to start. Of course if you buy a new furnace it going to save you money. First you have to drop the $10k for the furnace though! This isn't just buying a pack of LED bulbs or maybe spending $50 on a programmable thermostat; its a big undertaking.

That's also great that you bought a new house. I don't consider that a cheap fix to this either though. So I'm not doing the math for you here, but saving say $500/yr (which is what the government claims it will cost people) takes roughly 20 years to pay off the furnace.
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Old 10-08-2016, 08:01 PM   #3994
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I don't even know where to start. Of course if you buy a new furnace it going to save you money. First you have to drop the $10k for the furnace though! This isn't just buying a pack of LED bulbs or maybe spending $50 on a programmable thermostat; its a big undertaking.

That's also great that you bought a new house. I don't consider that a cheap fix to this either though. So I'm not doing the math for you here, but saving say $500/yr (which is what the government claims it will cost people) takes roughly 20 years to pay off the furnace.
Do you ever bother to read my entire posts? Yes a lot of people would struggle to make certain changes, but a lot of people wouldn't, and those people who can make the changes could help the others by helping out the local economy, while helping themselves in the process. Those who are struggling likely have some things they could change to make things easier, downsizing to a more fuel efficient vehicle is very doable in a lot of cases.

I wasn't advocating people just up and buy a new home, but for the record my new home was purchased for less than what I sold my old house for, and the early indications are that I will save significantly more than $500/year.
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Old 10-08-2016, 08:25 PM   #3995
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How we live wasn't an environmental choice really, more financial. I am a class one truck driver, so we are not exactly swimming in cash as it is. We live like we do to give us some breathing room on the finances, what makes me angry is the government finding ways to use up said room, when they constantly claim to be doing things that are supposed to benefit people and families in our tax bracket. What do I cut next, maybe the gymnastics class the kids are in?
Have you ever taken the time to calculate how much you spend on goods that will have this tax on them? I'm assuming the company you drive for covers your fuel costs so that would leave leisure fuel and enmax/direct energy? How much does the average person realistically spend on these bills monthly? And how much of a percentage of their earnings or bills does that make up? Say you spend $600/month on those bills, 20% would be $120/month, a switch to a more fuel efficient car could in some cases make that difference up entirely, while saving you even more as you would be spending less on fuel which would mean you pay less tax in the first place.

I get where you are coming from as far as potentially needing to make cuts, but so many use the sob story examples like yours about taking your kids out of ballet, rather than say well I guess there is something else I could do which wouldn't be so bad. Sounds to me like you are more than capable of finding a solution to this issue, I would even suggest that someone in your position could actually manage this tax with minimal impact. I may be wrong, but I find it interesting that someone in a reasonable paying job is claiming this tax will hurt them financially while at the same time adamantly opposing a minimum wage increase, if a tax is gonna make your life difficult at your income, think about how those families handle their day to day lives even without the tax.
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Old 10-08-2016, 08:37 PM   #3996
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I can't wait till the first snowstorm and seeing al the energy efficient vehicles needing the be pulled out by the evil pickup truck bogeymen
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Old 10-08-2016, 08:56 PM   #3997
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Have you ever taken the time to calculate how much you spend on goods that will have this tax on them? I'm assuming the company you drive for covers your fuel costs so that would leave leisure fuel and enmax/direct energy? How much does the average person realistically spend on these bills monthly? And how much of a percentage of their earnings or bills does that make up? Say you spend $600/month on those bills, 20% would be $120/month, a switch to a more fuel efficient car could in some cases make that difference up entirely, while saving you even more as you would be spending less on fuel which would mean you pay less tax in the first place.

I get where you are coming from as far as potentially needing to make cuts, but so many use the sob story examples like yours about taking your kids out of ballet, rather than say well I guess there is something else I could do which wouldn't be so bad. Sounds to me like you are more than capable of finding a solution to this issue, I would even suggest that someone in your position could actually manage this tax with minimal impact. I may be wrong, but I find it interesting that someone in a reasonable paying job is claiming this tax will hurt them financially while at the same time adamantly opposing a minimum wage increase, if a tax is gonna make your life difficult at your income, think about how those families handle their day to day lives even without the tax.
 Has the government bothered to do that calculation? No, they have based their costs solely on the energy use of the average family and have ignored the cost it will add to everything else. Really tell me, what else can I do with costs rising? Shut the heat completely off, I guess I can do that. The minimum wage increase has different implications, I am against it because it is resulting in people having less money overall and I already know someoone who is dealing with less work hours now because of it.
Think about more tax, and people with less money, I know that you don't believe that is happening even though it is.
We drive a Versa FFS, how much smaller can a family of 4 go.
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:05 PM   #3998
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The tax sucks, but I find it funny that even with all this notice most Albertans chose to spend their time complaining rather than use the time until it is introduced to make some changes like making their home more energy efficient or switching to a more fuel economy friendly car. So that they wouldn't notice the tax as much, maybe even not notice it at all, or God forbid they actually might come out ahead, simply by doing things they should already have been doing.
Hey everyone, if you want to save money on taxes, just go buy a new car!



I'd like to see the math on that one.
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:15 PM   #3999
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Hey everyone, if you want to save money on taxes, just go buy a new car!



I'd like to see the math on that one.
Your response to a sensible suggestion is to attack a statement you made? You do realize you can downsize your car by trading in your current vehicle right?
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:31 PM   #4000
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Your response to a sensible suggestion is to attack a statement you made? You do realize you can downsize your car by trading in your current vehicle right?
You can't simply sit here and say, hey buy a new car and buy a new furnace and buy a new house that's green certified and bam you're saving money.

I go back to who this carbon tax is outright going to slaughter. And that's the family that's barely getting by and can't afford a super duper new fuel efficient car because they have to make a choice between that and eating. Oh its easy to by a new furnace for 10k, but there aren't a lot of families that are going to go out and balance off a few hundred dollars a year savings versus going in the hole for a furnace.

And again this carbon tax doesn't take into consideration the increases that are going to hit things like food costs and every other cost out there.

The small amount comparatively on people that are way ahead who can afford to make that change aren't a significant number compared to the person who can't.

What about the person that doesn't own a house, and can't afford to own a house that see's their rent increase because of the carbon tax.

The NDP has put out this theoretical solution that this tax is no big deal because it will only effect heating and gas pricing, but that assumption is completely wrong, because the NDP has their noses so deep in their manifesto that they don't realize how many actual for real living and breathing people are going to get wrecked when this thing comes in because they can't buy new cars, and they can't buy new furnaces or super high priced light bulbs and other devices because its simply not in their budget and yet this stupid dumbass carbon tax is going to put them further behind the 8 ball.

I mean the NDP still hasn't talked about the charities like the food bank that are talking about a reduction of services because of this carbon tax, which again will hurt the low to low mid income earners.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...extra-31k.html

And I love how you're sitting there, going, this guy owns a truck and he needs to dump it and get some what Yugo? I think the government forgets that more then half the year we sit in subfreezing deep snow weather conditions, where having a four wheel drive is pretty much needed. But I guess you want the government to mandate what we're allowed to drive.

I guess in my mind there are some nifty links to. This minimum wage increase that the NDP is putting into place to give people more "Buying power" well what will be left of that increase after the goods and services that these people would suppossedly be able to buy increase. And what's left will be vacuumed up by increased food, heating and gas costs, and they'll probably end up behind where they are now.

Again, the NDP is doing this all based on the theology of their religion, and have no clue what its doing to people.
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