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polak · 10-03-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not over for Klimchuck and Poirier but I think we have to temper expectations. A bit of a cautionary tale as receiving 1st round picks in big trades is great and all but if you don't make good use of them it's a waste. The Igina and Bouwmeester trades don't look very good today seeing the Flames may have whiffed on those picks.

Man we've been spoiled with Tkachuk, Monahan and Bennett.

How quickly we forget how crappy we were with 1st round picks for most of the last decade. Unless you're drafting top 10, it's hardly a guarantee they turn into anything.

Erick Estrada · 10-03-2016, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polak

Man we've been spoiled with Tkachuk, Monahan and Bennett.

How quickly we forget how crappy we were with 1st round picks for most of the last decade. Unless you're drafting top 10, it's hardly a guarantee they turn into anything.

Agreed. Drafting has improved but the team is still in a big slump when it comes to drafting players between 20-30 in the first round. Backlund is all they have to show for a bunch of 20's picks.

dino7c · 10-03-2016, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polak

Man we've been spoiled with Tkachuk, Monahan and Bennett.

How quickly we forget how crappy we were with 1st round picks for most of the last decade. Unless you're drafting top 10, it's hardly a guarantee they turn into anything.

The highest three picks in franchise history

we have had better picks because the team has sucked worse on the ice in recent years

Table 5 · 10-03-2016, 01:47 PM

Bennett and (especially) Tkachuk are hardly locks yet.

The cupboards were pretty bare back then, but I remember saying in 2013, that it was really important that 2 out of those 3 picks made a strong impact, considering how it was looked at as a very strong draft. While I don't think you can completely count anyone out yet, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that you really have to temper expectations with two out of the 3. Unfortunately nobody past the 1st round looks like an NHLer either.

A bit of a shame...I was super excited after seeing Poirier the first time. He seemed like exactly what this team needed...a skilled guy with speed and who played a bit of a pest role. I was hoping he'd be our own Brand Marchand.

TheIronMaiden · 10-03-2016, 01:49 PM

My best guess is that:
Higgins, Korpikoski, Shinkaruk, and Hathaway
Get cut.
Tkachuk, gets his 9 games. If he gets sent down after that, one of Shinkaruk, and Hathaway would get the call up, depending on if the team needs more scoring or more grit.

JohnnyTitan · 10-03-2016, 01:53 PM

Just one other devil's advocate "Positive" for Klimchuk. He's only had one year of Pro. Poirier's had two.

So I guess I'm in the camp -> Don't write-off either, and cut Klim even a little more slack due to injuries AND getting stuck in Junior an extra year due to tweener-age.

Also worth noting is that there's only one player drafted post-Klimchuk in the 2013 draft with more than 30 points -> and that's Duclair in the 3rd round. So the cautionary tale of trading established NHL vets for magic beans remains...but maybe the Flames didn't "Wiff" based on not many past the first 20 picks in that draft have made any type of NHL mark.

Strange Brew · 10-03-2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Still too early to write off either of those kids. They are very young. Just because they were first rounders does not mean they are auto-busts if they don't step in early. See Backlund as an example of a player that took a few years to develop and still turned out just fine. Klimchuk in particular has missed a lot of development time due to injury.

Too early to write them off. Very important years for them though, I'll give you that.

Agreed. Especially the last comment. I would say though this was an important camp for them too.

DiracSpike · 10-03-2016, 02:04 PM

Surely this has to be a prove-it year for Jankowski too? The amount of hype he was getting before the season you'd think he would have stuck around in camp longer than he did.

JohnnyTitan · 10-03-2016, 02:06 PM

I think we're in for a fun ride this year...but many things are starting to point to next year as to when we get really competitive:

- Shed Wideman / Overage / Mason Raymond / Smid / Engelland / other $$s from the books
- Sign Bennett / Elliott / Ferland
- Get through the Expansion draft and then spend some UFA dollars on a RW
- Tkachuk / Jankowski / one more "D" prospect ready for the show on cheap ELCs
- One more year of growth to the young core

Hot_Flatus · 10-03-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Surely this has to be a prove-it year for Jankowski too? The amount of hype he was getting before the season you'd think he would have stuck around in camp longer than he did.

I'd assume he'll get another training camp to prove what he can do and he may still crack the roster late in the year if he goes out and has a solid season in the A.....Sure doesn't seem like the Flames think he's as ready as so many posters did last season though.

cannon7 · 10-03-2016, 02:09 PM

Jankowski looks really close, but some more time in the AHL won't hurt. Klimchuk looked good, if he can stay healthy this season he might still emerge. No shockers here, should have a strong minor league roster this year.

Hot_Flatus · 10-03-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

My best guess is that:
Higgins, Korpikoski, Shinkaruk, and Hathaway
Get cut.
Tkachuk, gets his 9 games. If he gets sent down after that, one of Shinkaruk, and Hathaway would get the call up, depending on if the team needs more scoring or more grit.

I'm not sure the Flames can afford to cut Shinkaruk from a personnel standpoint. Especially with an unsigned Gaudreau....unless you want Bouma or Stajan back in the top 6.

Flames Draft Watcher · 10-03-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Surely this has to be a prove-it year for Jankowski too? The amount of hype he was getting before the season you'd think he would have stuck around in camp longer than he did.

Yeah it's a big year for Janko and I'd expect him to tackle it well.

Hype really has nothing to do with anything. Jankowski was always a long shot to crack the team this fall based on his lack of pro experience, the fact he really could stand to fill out more and our centre depth. The AHL always made more sense for him despite some fans hoping the Flames would play him out of the position and convert him to a winger. He lasted about as long as I was expecting.

TheIronMaiden · 10-03-2016, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Surely this has to be a prove-it year for Jankowski too? The amount of hype he was getting before the season you'd think he would have stuck around in camp longer than he did.

Jankowski hasn't had a full pro season yet. Also, he made it to the second last round of cuts, which is impressive for his first pro camp. The players left to be cut have had a "cup of coffee" in the NHL already, and have proved, based on a larger sample size, that they are worth a longer look in their respective roles.

Of course its a 'prove it year', I would argue it is a 'prove it year' for every player in the system, NHL players included.

DiracSpike · 10-03-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Jankowski hasn't had a full pro season yet. Also, he made it to the second last round of cuts, which is impressive for his first pro camp. The players left to be cut have had a "cup of coffee" in the NHL already, and have proved, based on a larger sample size, that they are worth a longer look in their respective roles.

Of course its a 'prove it year', I would argue it is a 'prove it year' for every player in the system, NHL players included.

That's all true, but the fact that he's older than those guys has to count for something as well.

I was very disappointed with him on Friday.

greentree · 10-03-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeway

Still in camp:

Rittich

Grossmann, Morrison, Wotherspoon, Kulak

Tkachuk, Higgins, Korpikoski, Hamilton, Shinkaruk, Hathaway

None of those defensemen belong in the NHL imho.

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 10-03-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I'm not sure the Flames can afford to cut Shinkaruk from a personnel standpoint. Especially with an unsigned Gaudreau....unless you want Bouma or Stajan back in the top 6.

You don't want Bouma or Stajan in your top 6, but if Shinkaruk isn't proving to be a better option in training camp, why do you keep him around to play a role, while agreed not ideal, Bouma and Stajan would be better options serving?

MrMastodonFarm · 10-03-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

That's all true, but the fact that he's older than those guys has to count for something as well.

I was very disappointed with him on Friday.

Older than those guys, like who?
The only bubble player left that's younger his Shinraruk. Hunter will turn 22 in a week, Jankowski hit 22 last month. Shinkaruk also has two years pro experience under his belt.

Mark did incredibly well for himself at his first pro camp, despite your disappointment Friday.

TheIronMaiden · 10-03-2016, 02:40 PM

Shinkaruk fits a role that this teams needs, a scoring winger.
How well he fills that role is debatable.
That said, his waiver status makes him a likely cut, unless he shows that he is not replaceable.

Flash Walken · 10-03-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Bennett and (especially) Tkachuk are hardly locks yet.

The cupboards were pretty bare back then, but I remember saying in 2013, that it was really important that 2 out of those 3 picks made a strong impact, considering how it was looked at as a very strong draft. While I don't think you can completely count anyone out yet, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that you really have to temper expectations with two out of the 3. Unfortunately nobody past the 1st round looks like an NHLer either.

A bit of a shame...I was super excited after seeing Poirier the first time. He seemed like exactly what this team needed...a skilled guy with speed and who played a bit of a pest role. I was hoping he'd be our own Brand Marchand.

It was a big mistake to let the architects of the demise of the team be the ones to attempt to lay a new foundation, but realistically we all knew at the time that those picks weren't likely to ever do anything. 'Optimism' shouldn't be confused for scouting.

They should've been used to acquire a higher pick but I don't think there was a chance of that happening either with that management team.

Could've easily walked away with nothing altogether. Happy with Monahan.