Alberta Politics Thread

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

My favourite part is when the writer defends big corporations by saying it's a myth that they are sitting on piles of cash and have their money tied up in other things such as growth and creating jobs, implying they can't actually afford to pay their workers more, then further down the article he claims while small businesses can't afford to pay their employees more the corporations can.

So he's suggesting we should keep wages low so that big businesses can continue to grow which will give them a better ability to increase their buying power which will further reduce costs and then they can wipe out their competition, that are already operating on razor thin margins therefore cannot grow, by underselling them? Is this not the exact same end result that people are claiming will happen with increasing minimum wage?

Edit: also wanted to add, the evidence being presented about job losses in the US when the minimum wage was being raised from 2007-2009, is presented in a manor that kinda neglects the whole worst recession since the Great Depression thing that was going on at the time, and while you could argue that maybe it didn't help, I think most people are aware the main factors which contributed to that recession were unavoidable and were going to have a severe impact. One could even argue that given the circumstances, the fact that it only got as bad as it did with a 41% increase to the minimum wage piled on top, our minimum wage raise won't be as damaging as many fear.

So you agree that significantly raising the minimum wage during a recession is a bad idea? Well, at least we're making a bit of progress here.

By the way, this current recession is worse/deeper for Alberta than 08/09 was.

[transplant99]

As the Iron Lady herself so succinctly put it..

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

As the Iron Lady herself so succinctly put it..

You will likely never be convinced of otherwise, but wouldn't the same thing apply to businesses if consumers end up being too poor to buy their goods and services?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So you agree that significantly raising the minimum wage during a recession is a bad idea? Well, at least we're making a bit of progress here.

By the way, this current recession is worse/deeper for Alberta than 08/09 was.

I meant it wasn't helpful in the short term, but you may have noticed that country to the south of our border did it, and they are still there, and their economy is actually thriving. In fact the recovery from that recession began around the same time as the minimum wage increase was completed. The fear mongering that this will destroy Alberta is simply that. Overall we don't know what will happen for sure, nobody does, businesses know it will cost more, so they will say whatever they need to in the hopes of avoiding it. Some might go out of business but many won't, yet it doesn't matter which business owner you ask, most will simply say it will ruin everything.

[jammies]

If I post a picture of a homeless dude from the streets of LA, does that prove capitalism is a bankrupt ideology?

If your "argument" is a picture or two with a caption, you need to up your game.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You will likely never be convinced of otherwise, but wouldn't the same thing apply to businesses if consumers end up being too poor to buy their goods and services?

WTF does that mean? If the goods/services are not selling, the business adjusts its pricing. That happens all the time. Supply, demand, all that nonsense. You realize (well, clearly you don't) that raising the price of unskilled labour during a downturn (when there is plenty of supply) will lower the demand for said unskilled labour, and result in more unemployment?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

WTF does that mean? If the goods/services are not selling, the business adjusts its pricing. That happens all the time. Supply, demand, all that nonsense. You realize (well, clearly you don't) that raising the price of unskilled labour during a downturn (when there is plenty of supply) will lower the demand for said unskilled labour, and result in more unemployment?

What is this, some kind of invisible hand?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

WTF does that mean? If the goods/services are not selling, the business adjusts its pricing. That happens all the time. Supply, demand, all that nonsense. You realize (well, clearly you don't) that raising the price of unskilled labour during a downturn (when there is plenty of supply) will lower the demand for said unskilled labour, and result in more unemployment?

Originally Posted by Delgar

What is this, some kind of invisible hand?

So would it be in our best interest to lower minimum wage or get rid of it all together? Because it will reduce costs which will automatically lead to lower prices being passed on to consumers?

[GaiJin]

How many more pages till iggy oil gets it, bets?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

How many more pages till iggy oil gets it, bets?

It? I get your opinions, I just don't agree with them. If you're set in your views and aren't open to hearing any others, why even bother following a thread discussing it?

[Locke]

What are we arguing about now? I cant even follow this.

It appears that the NDP Party Line is that raising the minimum wage will have no effect on jobs or employment. Either positive or negative...?

But it will have a positive effect on lower income workers.

And no effect on employers.

And no effect on consumers.

I'm no fancy, big city mathematician or Economist or nuthin, but I can tell you that typically, if you change a variable within an equation you change the result of that same equation.

There is no such thing as magic.

So they're either ignorant, wrong or lying.

My money is on all 3.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by jammies

If I post a picture of a homeless dude from the streets of LA, does that prove capitalism is a bankrupt ideology?

If your "argument" is a picture or two with a caption, you need to up your game.

No it proves that your homeless dude needs to move to a different state because california has had the democrats in charge since the 90's and they have one of the highest unemployment rates in america.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

No it proves that your homeless dude needs to move to a different state because california has had the democrats in charge since the 90's and they have one of the highest unemployment rates in america.

We'll....in fairness, there's a lot of homeless in California because they have a moderate climate and it's easier to survive there year-round. Same with Canada and Vancouver. It has the most moderate climate.

That's why Ralph Klein buying them bus tickets to Vancouver was actually a piece of mercy. If he'd bought them bus tickets to Edmonton we'd be calling him 'Iron Ralph.'

[iggy_oi]

Haven't been following the news about what they've been saying about it, but yeah Locke is right in his assessment if that's what they are saying. It may surprise some here but I'm not trying to defend the minimum wage increase because the NDP are implementing it, I would be supporting it the same if it were Brian Jean or even Steven Harper doing it. I just strongly believe that the road to reducing poverty goes through those who are creating it, not by over taxing those who are fighting to stay out of it.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

How many more pages till iggy oil gets it, bets?

I'm going to put $10 on never getting it.

iggy_oi is hardly the only one. There's a lot of people here who seem to have glommed on to ideologies without understanding not only their basic tenets, but the fundamentals of the systems they supposedly hate. There's very little willingness to learn, preferring strength in ignorance.

A political party promises them a free ride, and they have no considerations towards the costs or the consequences.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So would it be in our best interest to lower minimum wage or get rid of it all together? Because it will reduce costs which will automatically lead to lower prices being passed on to consumers?

Handsome B wonderful I'd love to hear your insight on these questions. As well as anyone else's who are opposed to raising the minimum wage.

[Bootsy]

What I've learned from the last few pages is how important it will be to go out and vote in 2019. And also to have a strong right wing party that the majority of Albertans will support. Whether it's the Wild Rose or the PCs ( even the Alberta Party for that matter ) who pull ahead of the other by a wide margin or some kind of merger between them , because knowing there is a small section of people out there sharing the views of iggy_oi and from what I've seen from the NDP government so far another 4 years of them sounds just awful and not the kind of place I want to live it. I'd hate a vote split to result in this happening.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Haven't been following the news about what they've been saying about it, but yeah Locke is right in his assessment if that's what they are saying. It may surprise some here but I'm not trying to defend the minimum wage increase because the NDP are implementing it, I would be supporting it the same if it were Brian Jean or even Steven Harper doing it. I just strongly believe that the road to reducing poverty goes through those who are creating it, not by over taxing those who are fighting to stay out of it.

And I can appreciate that. But what myself and many other posters have been saying is that the current government's stance that "nothing bad will happen" is false and that this isn't the way to help these people.

This policy will do far more harm than good not only to small businesses but also to the people we're all trying to help.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I'm going to put $10 on never getting it.

iggy_oi is hardly the only one. There's a lot of people here who seem to have glommed on to ideologies without understanding not only their basic tenets, but the fundamentals of the systems they supposedly hate. There's very little willingness to learn, preferring strength in ignorance.

A political party promises them a free ride, and they have no considerations towards the costs or the consequences.

Free ride? Lol by reducing their need for social assistance? So you'd rather give big companies a free ride by having us subsidize their employees' wages?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

How many more pages till iggy oil gets it, bets?

He has a right to his views and opinions like anyone else here.