[Rumour] UPD: Friedman: Thinks a deal will get done between Gaudreau and the Flames in the next week

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

On TSN Craig Button said, going by his experience of signing Iginla, Johnny should get $7.5M over 8 years.

Good example as to why you shouldn't base your team around a winger.

With Iginla ... one of the undisputed top-3 wingers in the NHL over a span of 7 or so years the Flames won no playoff series.

They used too much cap space to a support position.

I don't want the Highlights for the next decade being Gaudreau getting 100 pts or 50 goals or 30 goals for 8 straight seasons.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Good example as to why you shouldn't base your team around a winger.

With Iginla ... one of the undisputed top-3 wingers in the NHL over a span of 7 or so years the Flames won no playoff series.

They used too much cap space to a support position.

I don't want the Highlights for the next decade being Gaudreau getting 100 pts or 50 goals or 30 goals for 8 straight seasons.

Really? That's why the Flames sucked? That extra couple million would have made us a playoff team during those 7 years?

You are starting to sound like Gaudreauvertime.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Monahan getting paid more than Barkov, Scheifele, and Mackinnon is a bit of an overpayment. .

Really splitting hairs here eh?

Barkov - Six year contract, that brought his cap hit down.

MacKimmon - 75k less of a cap hit. Just over half a million less than Monahan spread over seven years. A paltry amount Has 9 more teams in his modified NTC he has list, total of 19.

Monahan has played with Gaudreau. Monahan has also played with Glencross and David Jones while MacKimmon has lined up next to Matt Duchene, Gabriel Landeskog, Ryan O'Reily, Paul Stansy. Quality of linemates has consistantly been in Nathan's corner.

Scheifele comparable players, Monahan two years younger, shown more in his younger years. Argument for bigger upside is easy to see. "Only" 200k separating each season. Plays with Blake Wheeler (78 points), but I'm not about to suggest Wheeler carries him, that would make me look stupid. Objectively stupid.

[VladtheImpaler]

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

Jones is gone. It's just Bennett now. Careful or you'll get TheScorpion excited.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by vladtheimpaler

assuming g-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. is it dentons or bennett jones?

n.r.f.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by May 25, 1989

I've posted that I agree Gaudreau needs better road stats but Jamie Benn only had 6 even strength road goals last year in 41 games.

9.5 Million dollars a year for 6 even strength road goals.....

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Monahan getting paid more than Barkov, Scheifele, and Mackinnon is a bit of an overpayment. And much of his success is objectively a result of playing with Johnny.

There aren't many legitimate claims against Johnny. Everything that's been brought up tends to be about how he's one dimensional (false), is easy to shut down (false), his size makes him injury prone (false), or is unproven.

Fact is, he's far more proven than Monahan and less of a risk to regress because he has shown the ability to maintain productivity independent of line mates, a claim Monahan can not make.

Simply for your edification:

An objective perspective is one that is not influenced by emotions, opinions, or personal feelings - it is a perspective based in fact, in things quantifiable and measurable. A subjective perspective is one open to greater interpretation based on personal feeling, emotion, aesthetics, etc.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

Norton Rose.

[Manhattanboy]

Ha sums up most articling students rather well. And certain associates.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Norton Rose.

IFF, can you cut his Internet access or at least give him some time-consuming task, like reviewing a container of production?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am ok with Treliving sticking to his guns and whatever number he feels works. You have to build a winner first. LA doesn't always look sexy winning a Stanley Cup, but they did it thanks to their ability to build a team. With Kopitar getting a huge bump, that is going to be a more difficult task for them.

I love Gaudreau, but I love the Flames more. Gaudreau will get signed to a number that works. If not, he will eventually be traded and the Flames will receive other pieces to help them win. That's how I see it. Will I be happy to see Gaudreau go? Of course not - he is entertaining and a superstar in the making. If you pay him 'too much' (whatever that number may be), then guys like Bennett and Tkachuk and whomever else in the future will also ask for 'too much', and know if they sit out they will get it.

Sometimes a team needs to do a hard thing in order to ensure everyone else falls in line. Sucks sometimes, but this is a business, and the business is building a successful team. I think Treliving learned from his past signings like Bouma in that you sometimes have to hold steadfast to what you think a player is worth, and not overpay.

Gaudreau's contract might end up being the new 'ceiling' for the Flames. What does this mean? It means that it is easier for players in the future to approach that ceiling. Having that ceiling as low as possible - call it the Giordano cap, or the Gaudreau cap, or just the 'superstar' cap - facilitates future signings somewhat. I don't think it is too difficult to rationalize that point. The higher you set the ceiling, the more little 'bumps' up future contracts get argued for.

One thing I would like to add is that Monahan is criminally underrated here. He is not a product of Gaudreau. If I have to pick between the two, I still pick Monahan as the guy to keep long term. He will do more heavy lifting in his career I would bet. Does Gaudreau help the Flames win? Of course he does - and I am pretty damn sure that he will continue doing that with his upcoming new contract on the Flames.

I don't think the Flames will trade him. I don't think this contract negotiations have reached an impasse and have completely stalled out (I don't believe Francis). The deal will get done, and there will probably be a new 'ceiling' on Flames' contracts, but the lower that ceiling is the better off the Flames will be now and in the future. That is the point I am trying to make. Gaudreau may be a superstar, but he is also an RFA with only 2 seasons' worth of experience, no arbitration rights and no offer-sheet rights. It would be unprecedented for him to sign a long-term contract over 8 years. I think Gaudreau is a great player - a really special player - but 8 million is unprecedented given the situation.

Gaudreauhomertime - much like WhiskeyGaudreahomertimeHF - is a huge fan of Gaudreau, much like we are. However, he (not they, I am betting, but rather he) becomes hugely annoying at placing Gaudreau first ahead of the team, and then turning around and arguing that the rest of the team is composed of lesser players who aren't worthy of holding Gaudreau's jock strap. I have to stop and remember that I actually really do love Gaudreau, as he makes me almost dislike him. The best troll job in sometimes making me dislike one of my favorite players - epic, really. Knock it off - Monahan is a fantastic player that 29 other teams in the NHL would love to have. He doesn't have Gaudreau's flash, but Monahan does a tremendous job in helping the Flames win, and he out-scored Gaudreau from the All-star game on (did he not? He was doing it at least towards the end of the season). Monahan quietly gets the job done, while having additional responsibilities and being younger. Quit insinuating he is some scrub.

We all love Gaudreau here, and we all appreciate him as a special player. We have seen wonderful franchise players move on that did a heck of a lot more than Gaudreau has done, and who have been here for much longer. MacInnis, Nieuwendyk, Iginla, Loob, etc. - guys that have put in wonderful seasons, amazed us with what they accomplished on the ice, entertained us, and in some cases won a Stanley cup with. They left, and the team remains. That is how it is. Gaudreau is not and will never be larger than the Calgary Flames to me (and I would think to most fans on this board). We all want Gaudreau a part of the Flames, but we just happen to be cognizant of the fact that he needs to get signed to a contract that makes sense in order to have the best chance of winning down the road. That is what is most important.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Monahan getting paid more than Barkov, Scheifele, and Mackinnon is a bit of an overpayment. And much of his success is objectively a result of playing with Johnny.

There aren't many legitimate claims against Johnny. Everything that's been brought up tends to be about how he's one dimensional (false), is easy to shut down (false), his size makes him injury prone (false), or is unproven.

Fact is, he's far more proven than Monahan and less of a risk to regress because he has shown the ability to maintain productivity independent of line mates, a claim Monahan can not make.

I've just ignored you in the past, but you have moved from painful and annoying to a troll and perhaps a complete shill. The above is complete garbage.

Are mods going to do something about this? This guy is dragging us down the idiot hole.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Both guys had bad road numbers.
Monahan had good home numbers.
Gaudreau was the best home player in the league.

"But look at Gaudreau's splits! He's awful on the road"

Fun fact:
Johnny Gaudreau had 2 goals and 7 points 5v5 on the road. This ties him for... what? oh, right, 310th in the league.

1st at home, 310th on the road. That's pretty worth noting don't you think?

To showcase that clearly:
5v5 Home
1st - Gaudreau
13th - Monahan

5v5 Away
142th - Monahan
310th - Gaudreau

Based on the actual stats, Gaudreau had a SIGNIFICANTLY worse drop-off on the road than Monahan 5v5.

Most top scoring guys remained in the top 20 for both, with Jamie Benn as the other notable drop-off who was 72nd in 5v5 scoring on the road.

EDIT: My point being, everyone does worse on the road than at home. Gaudreau wasn't even close a top 10 forward on the road. 300 players were closer.

[Max Cow Disease]

I tend to agree with Calgary4LIfe's post above. I'm having a tough time reconciling my love for Johnny as a player with the team's need to remain disciplined in negotiations, but alas. I've tended to lean towards "gah, I can't take it any more, just pay the kid!" a few times myself, but Treliving's doing the right thing by undertaking a proper negotiation. The acumen that he's using in a situation like this is of the same sort that he would have employed in the Dougie trade or the great return for Russell, so it's important in my mind to trust the "process" here and let things play out.

He wants Johnny on the opening night roster as much as everyone else does if not more so, but he also has to steer the team's rudder and manage the cap/business.

[underclassman]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

So do you think they started lower than ~6.5? Or do you not believe media reports is evidence?

Who believes the media ?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

You know he can't say where he works. What does it rhyme with?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

You forgot one distinct possibility, used car salesman.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Assuming G-time is not a family member or paid fluffer, there is only choice left - he is an articling student at a large law firm. Negotiates for a living, thinks he knows everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about - check, check, check and check. Is it Dentons or Bennett Jones?

Articling students at big firms don't do any negotiating, except perhaps which one of them has to stay all weekend to do doc review.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Articling students at big firms don't do any negotiating, except perhaps which one of them has to stay all weekend to do doc review.

I know, but THEY think that's what they do