Are you comparing the attack on Parliament to 9/11?
Not a direct comparison. Just don't understand how one day seems more important than the next when there are so many instances of indiscriminate violence, especially in the greater context, and the long term salience of one date over another.
Not a direct comparison. Just don't understand how one day seems more important than the next when there are so many instances of indiscriminate violence, especially in the greater context, and the long term salience of one date over another.
9/11 was instantly more symbolic than any other attack in any part of the world since Pearl Harbour. It gave license for Bush et al to run amok in the middle east and change a great many things about our lives permanently. Lots of people have died in lots of attacks since but none have resulted in the Patriot Act, 15 years of war, trillions in spending, millions of lives, and billions in profit. One other reason it hasn't been forgotten is because there are so many questions that haven't been answered. You can't forget what you don't know.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to OMG!WTF! For This Useful Post:
^^^ This is undoubtedly the most investigated crime in history and the great majority of questions on 9/11 have been sufficiently answered. A dwindling percentage of the population not liking the answers/facts is not grounds for suggesting there are major things left to be revealed.
Last edited by Flabbibulin; 09-12-2016 at 11:01 PM.
^^^ Loud and clear. But we did find out just this year that the Saudi's funded a good chunk of the job. That brings up a couple questions for sure. It's part of what makes it hard for some people to forget and or move on.
As an American who sees how 9/11 is used as a method to divide rather than unite, I say let's forget. Let's move on. Let's stop holding a grudge. The world is a much worse place because of this stupid "never forget" crap. This is why the Middle East continues to be a cesspool of hatred - they just refuse to let the past be the past and live in the moment. So on this 15th anniversary of a horrible day that set this new millennia in a direction of hopeless hatred I say, "Get over it." Stop the hating because of what happened 15 years ago. Hatred will never defeat hatred. Live by these words instead.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
- Dr. Martin Luther King
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
The people that died in that tragedy that day deserve not to be forgotten.
The first responders and other people who ran into danger to try to save lives do not deserve to be forgotten.
We can talk about the American reaction and its effects due to this, that also should not be forgotten but should be used as a cautionary tale of policy gone awry.
And shouldn't be forgotten.
I totally agree with both of you. The people and first responders will never and should never be forgotten. The horror of that day will live in infamy probably for the rest of human history like the many other mass-death tragedies that have happened in our past.
That said, there is something to be said for not forgetting, but forgiving. Letting go of the hatred for the people who did this does not mean you forget the event, or the bravery and sadness involved.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Coach For This Useful Post:
The footage of firefighters heading towards the still standing WTC after the other one fell will always stick with me. They know their friends/colleagues likely perished, in the first building collapse, and they packed up and moved towards the second building with determined/somber faces.
The 102 Mins that changed America documentary is exceptional and everyone should watch it. Incredible footage of a turning point in history.
9/11 was instantly more symbolic than any other attack in any part of the world since Pearl Harbour. It gave license for Bush et al to run amok in the middle east and change a great many things about our lives permanently. Lots of people have died in lots of attacks since but none have resulted in the Patriot Act, 15 years of war, trillions in spending, millions of lives, and billions in profit. One other reason it hasn't been forgotten is because there are so many questions that haven't been answered. You can't forget what you don't know.
I'm not sure its a matter of questions going unanswered rather than the media and politicians refusing to let this the country emotionally heal. 9/11 were tragic events, but they were tragedies that have been politicized and used for many of the things you mentioned, and many of the outcomes I presented in my second post on this matter. No matter how hard we try to begin the healing process there is some event where the media has to trot out those images, or some politician that has to evoke 9/11, and re-stoke the fires. Every time the scab has formed it gets ripped off creating an even uglier scar. As I said in post two, there are much better ways to mark this day, many by altering our behaviors in how we support those people who lived. I would rather these events lead to something positive rather than the spectacular photo-ops we see each year, like all the garbage before each football game this past Sunday. To me that was not a sign of respect to the fallen, it was a grotesque promotion of ideology. When those people who died in the World Trade Centers, on those flights, and the brave first responders who ran into danger to attempt to save lives, I seriously doubt they were thinking of God or Country, they were thinking of their fellow man. That is how we should honor the dead. By doing right by our fellow man, each and every day.
I think New Era does have a valid point, although he might of worded it a little crudely.
Posting sympathies and rewatching these videos does help remember those lost, but it also helps remember all the anger I had and vengeance I was seeking at the time.
Terrible things have happened in every day of the calendar year. We shouldn't forget these tragedies, but I'm also not sure we need to rehash the events that took place and brought terror to the world.
It's like Memorial/Veterans day. We have a day to remember all those lost in service because they should never be forgotten. We don't have a day for each big battle or war that took place.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bandwagon In Flames For This Useful Post:
Terrible things have happened in every day of the calendar year. We shouldn't forget these tragedies, but I'm also not sure we need to rehash the events that took place and brought terror to the world.
It's like Memorial/Veterans day. We have a day to remember all those lost in service because they should never be forgotten. We don't have a day for each big battle or war that took place.
We mark a lot of important events similar in scope to 9/11 though. We remember the end of ww1, the beginning of ww2. D-day. Hiroshima to an extent. The difference is these things have conclusions. I think the anger and horror people feel watching 9/11 videos is alive and well because we never really figured out who to blame. We got a whole bunch of pay back and none of it amounted to a hill of beans. We forget the hell out of Vietnam cause we lost and it got ugly. We can't even say that when it comes to 9/11.
The saying is never forget, not never forgive. The suggestion that Americans should forget an attack of this magnitude, only 15 years after the fact, is impossible and even a little silly. What New Era might be getting at is the need for Americans to forgive people of the Middle East, and perhaps Muslims in general, in relation to the blame that has collectively been placed on them.
I think never forgetting means to regularly honor the victims while also staying committed to fighting the groups and ideology behind the attacks.
The Following User Says Thank You to Flabbibulin For This Useful Post:
We mark a lot of important events similar in scope to 9/11 though. We remember the end of ww1, the beginning of ww2. D-day. Hiroshima to an extent. The difference is these things have conclusions. I think the anger and horror people feel watching 9/11 videos is alive and well because we never really figured out who to blame. We got a whole bunch of pay back and none of it amounted to a hill of beans. We forget the hell out of Vietnam cause we lost and it got ugly. We can't even say that when it comes to 9/11.
Did we really get nothing out of it? I don't agree and I think that's a dishonest way to look at it. We got a lot of good mixed in with a lot of bad as a result of the changes after this.
I'm not one for the surveillance state and I think things like the Patriot Act and the erosion of the 4th amendment is pretty horrible, but I readily admit that the prevention of attacks has increased since 9/11. Granted, some of that is as a result of the more recent Jihadi groups focusing first on the near enemy as opposed to the far enemy.
Finding that line is the hard part. I doubt the modern security apparatus ever finds a happy medium. Power obtained is reluctantly relinquished.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
The Following User Says Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
We mark a lot of important events similar in scope to 9/11 though. We remember the end of ww1, the beginning of ww2. D-day. Hiroshima to an extent. The difference is these things have conclusions. I think the anger and horror people feel watching 9/11 videos is alive and well because we never really figured out who to blame. We got a whole bunch of pay back and none of it amounted to a hill of beans. We forget the hell out of Vietnam cause we lost and it got ugly. We can't even say that when it comes to 9/11.
There is almost too much ####/horrible events to remember.
You can pick your poison, for me Sept 9-17, 1993 are dates I remember, amongst others.
Is it on us to question if people need to "remember", I don't think it is.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
The Following User Says Thank You to undercoverbrother For This Useful Post:
Never Forget sounds like a slogan to build resolve or justify an action. I think that's the reason it kinda bugs me. You can acknowledge and honor victims without turning it into a battle cry of sorts.
As an outsider looking in I feel like the resolve around Never Forget hampers victims ability to move forward. But who am I to tell someone how to feel. I know how this has affected me and I just watched it on tv.
We brought this exhibit http://tunnel2towers.org/activity/never-forget-exhibit/ to Saskatoon last year and it was somthing else. Meeting a firefighter who was on scene that day was something else. This exhibit was lined up as soon as it opened, had about a 45 minute wait all day, and was still lined up when we were wrapping up the airshow for the day. The guy running it said he couldn't beleive the response from the canadian crowd, he said in their stops through the US there is hardly ever a line. He was sending pics of the line back to his mates in NY and they were amazed. I don't think it's that we care any more than they do, but they have saturated people to the point of apathy down south.
The Following User Says Thank You to speede5 For This Useful Post:
