Mason Raymond v. Hartley

[Northendzone]

I find these articles somewhat interesting as it does give the average fan a bit of insight on how things work on a pro sports team.

will be interesting to see how he plays in anahiem

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

When Raymond got opportunities, even if they were limited, he wasn't good enough.
So that's it for me.
When you get opportunities in pro sports - you best take advantage of them. Otherwise you may not get another one, if you think you deserve it.

If he played well when in the lineup his argument would have some merit. But he didn't. So there's nothing to stand behind there.

I agree entirely.

Interestingly though, this exact same argument applied to Baertschi. And many people were far less willing to give Hartley the benefit of the doubt there.

[blankall]

People are making a lot out of this article. I don't think he sounds entitled at all:

“I’ll leave it there,” he says politely. “What happened, happened. There could be many things. You could point the finger a million ways. But, at the end of the day, I’ve got to take responsibility myself.”

He also scored at a PPG pace in the AHL after being sent down. A lot of players just mope when that happens.

Raymond is a 31 year old vet, not a rookie. Everyone should know exactly what Raymond brings to the table. Sounds like his style of play didn't fit with Hartley. It also sounds like Hartley is the type to write someone off quickly and not give second chances. From the author:

Raymond’s time with the Flames, however, was marked – defined, actually – by his extended residence in Hartley’s dog-house, where there are no squatters. Once you’re in, you’re in – ask Blair Jones, ask Sven Baertschi – always with room for more bodies.

Raymond has always been a speedy tweener who can score but gets knocked off the puck easily. Not sure why anyone would expect him to suddenly transform into a hard nosed grinder along the boards.

My only gripe is that the Flames overpaid him, but that's hardly his fault.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I agree entirely.

Interestingly though, this exact same argument applied to Baertschi. And many people were far less willing to give Hartley the benefit of the doubt there.

Far less people ran out and bought Raymond jersey's though. Likely the double standard being applied

[greentree]

Good article, just in the sense that Raymond decides to reveal himself to be a complete and utter d-bag.
Good riddance.

[Frank MetaMusil]

This guy got every chance under the sun with Hartley. Remember how many posters complained about his PP time? Obviously he doesn't see it that way, but c'mon man.

He was still doing the Canucks favors, like when he scored on his own net from that stupid bank pass off the boards to the point man.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by blankall

People are making a lot out of this article. I don't think he sounds entitled at all:



He also scored at a PPG pace in the AHL after being sent down. A lot of players just mope when that happens.

Raymond is a 31 year old vet, not a rookie. Everyone should know exactly what Raymond brings to the table. Sounds like his style of play didn't fit with Hartley. It also sounds like Hartley is the type to write someone off quickly and not give second chances. From the author:



Raymond has always been a speedy tweener who can score but gets knocked off the puck easily. Not sure why anyone would expect him to suddenly transform into a hard nosed grinder along the boards.

My only gripe is that the Flames overpaid him, but that's hardly his fault.

That and he also generally sucked when he was here. That can not be denied.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by greentree

Good article, just in the sense that Raymond decides to reveal himself to be a complete and utter d-bag.
Good riddance.

You got that from him saying there were issues with Hartley, but that those were only a part of his problems and that he took responsibility for the situation? And that he likes Carlyle?

He's obviously liked enough that guys like Stajan include him in a workout.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I'm not too sure what the purpose of this article was other then to deliver some useless news during a slow summer.

Then you weren't reading it correctly.

Tuesday’s informal session at WinSport, where a couple of dozen professionals – from Jon Gillies to Ladislav Smid, from Mark Jankowski to Rasmus Andersson, from Troy Brouwer to Matt Stajan – had taken part.

Janko and Rasmus are already in town skating with the vets!

[dino7c]

is this guy even an NHLer anymore? I have my doubts

[northcrunk]

Raymond is not an NHLer anymore. Doesn't go to the middle of the ice ever. Plays scared since his last injury.

[GioforPM]

He is indeed a perimeter player, and not good enough at it to be an NHLer IMO.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Raymond is not an NHLer anymore. Doesn't go to the middle of the ice ever. Plays scared since his last injury.

It's not a case of Raymond playing scared. It's not a mental thing with him. I think Raymond just doesn't have it physically to be what he used to be. Just not an NHL-calibre player anymore because he physically doesn't have it.

[Vulcan]

Tuesday’s informal session at WinSport, where a couple of dozen professionals – from Jon Gillies to Ladislav Smid, from Mark Jankowski to Rasmus Andersson, from Troy Brouwer to Matt Stajan – had taken part.

Smid is skating and I guess preparing for camp. I've been hoping he'd stay on LTI but maybe not.

[curves2000]

Sometimes in the end, it just doesn't' work out for a variety of reasons, one of them can be the coach on any given team.

For every coach who has buried a guy, there is a coach who has resurrected or saved a guy's career. It wouldn't surprise me if Mason had a solid, bounce-back year. Knowing our luck, watch him bury the game winners during our visits to the Honda Center.

I was initially upset with the firing of Hartley but its starting to become a bit more evident that there was some issues in the room that the players have. I totally understand the need to make sure these players are accountable but we have all had managers in our own careers who we didn't give 100% to. Sometimes it becomes a passive aggressive thing.

These things happen in hockey and sometimes they happen in a negative or a positive way for the Flames. We will see what happens I guess.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Sometimes in the end, it just doesn't' work out for a variety of reasons, one of them can be the coach on any given team.

For every coach who has buried a guy, there is a coach who has resurrected or saved a guy's career. It wouldn't surprise me if Mason had a solid, bounce-back year. Knowing our luck, watch him bury the game winners during our visits to the Honda Center.

I was initially upset with the firing of Hartley but its starting to become a bit more evident that there was some issues in the room that the players have. I totally understand the need to make sure these players are accountable but we have all had managers in our own careers who we didn't give 100% to. Sometimes it becomes a passive aggressive thing.

These things happen in hockey and sometimes they happen in a negative or a positive way for the Flames. We will see what happens I guess.

What makes you think that?? The only thing Raymond can still do at an NHL level is skate. He's basically another guy going the way of Setoguchi and done Dany Heatley and Niklas Hagman too.

It would be a much bigger surprise if he can still do what he did in his earlier years, and it doesn't look like he can.

[burn_baby_burn]

Watching him from my perch in the PL, I always wondered if he would make a good short track speed skater?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Karl

What makes you think that?? The only thing Raymond can still do at an NHL level is skate. He's basically another guy going the way of Setoguchi and done Dany Heatley.

It would be a much bigger surprise if he can still do what he did in his earlier years.

Sometimes players resurrect their careers for a variety of reasons. In the news article he mentioned Randy Carlyle and having a lot of confidence with him, that can be a positive.

I am not saying he will come in and become a sniper or anything but he may become a serviceable, 3rd line winger for the Ducks. It's a low risk and low value contract so it was worth it for them.

Players come and go and have good and bad experiences in their careers. It wasn't a very long time ago that WE brought him in to score a lot of goals so clearly management thought there was something there.

See what happens but crazier things have happened than a 30 year old with 500+ games having a 12 goal season on a talented team like the Ducks.

[Bingo]

no coach in the circuit is going to give plum ice time or linemates to a guy that seemed to have almost every touch die on his stick.

he'd turn the puck over when skating with it on his own.

I've heard he's a great guy, and it was almost a great story but I don't blame Hartley for his failures.

His appearance list in his two years by minutes?
1. Colborne / Jooris 89minutes
2. Backlund / Frolik 59min (they make everyone better)
3. Colborne / Gralund 56min (bad combination)
4. Colborne / Backlund 50min
5. Granlund / Bennett 40min (poor Sam)

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Raymond's biggest issue last year wasn't being soft. It wasn't the contact that caused him to lose control of the puck and fall.

The guy doesn't have the ability to skate with the puck at a high speed without falling. I've never seen anyone fall on open ice so much. It's like that kid from the mighty ducks who couldn't stop without crashing into the boards.

As for opportunity, the Flames wasted weeks worth of powerplays trying to feed 1-timers to Raymond. And yet Bob didn't give you a fair shake?