The Left Lane/Right Lane Thunderdome Thread

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Zarley

What?

From the Alberta driver's handbook:



It's a very simple rule to follow.

Not what Polak was talking about though. No one is disputing that. That rule, doesn't permit drivers to speed way above the limit.

[polak]

I can't even.

I'm removing myself from this thread.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Different discussion then - and would require a complete overhaul of licensing, training and driver behavior.
I don't know if that is something that is practical.

You really think so? I think it would be a pretty minor adjustment. It's the rule in BC, right? Having driven extensively in both places, I can say with absolute certainty that if what passes for a competent driver in BC can manage it, the drivers here should have no real problem.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Not what Polak was talking about though. No one is disputing that. That rule, doesn't permit drivers to speed way above the limit.

Speeding has no bearing on this conversation. If you are travelling slower than another vehicle on the roadway attempting to pass, the rule dictates that you need to move to the right regardless of whether one, both, or neither of you are speeding. Speed limits are a different topic altogether.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Speeding has no bearing on this conversation. If you are travelling slower than another vehicle on the roadway attempting to pass, the rule dictates that you need to move to the right regardless of whether one, both, or neither of you are speeding. Speed limits are a different topic altogether.

Agreed, it's a different issue entirely.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Speeding has no bearing on this conversation. If you are travelling slower than another vehicle on the roadway attempting to pass, the rule dictates that you need to move to the right regardless of whether one, both, or neither of you are speeding. Speed limits are a different topic altogether.

I think they are certainly the same topic.
But it seems like those on this side of the conversation only want to talk about the one aspect of this that supports their position.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Speeding has no bearing on this conversation. If you are travelling slower than another vehicle on the roadway attempting to pass, the rule dictates that you need to move to the right regardless of whether one, both, or neither of you are speeding. Speed limits are a different topic altogether.

I disagree. Let's try this scenario on HWY 2:

car 1: going 130 in the left lane, passing several cars going 110-120.
car 2: going 140 in in the left lane, catches up to car 1 and rides his ass.

Now, should car 1 slow down and merge into the right lane to let car 2 pass? Or should car 2 just wait until car 1 has finished passing the row of slower cars?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No one needs to decide what is too fast - there are signs that actually outline the speed that is permitted. If you choose to go over that, you are choosing to ignore those stated guidelines
You seem to think that everyone should adjust their behavior to meet the needs of those precious few who think they are above the law and established driving guidelines.
And to be clear, because you seem to be ignoring this point, I don't hog up the left lane. I use it to pass, and otherwise cruise in the right.

As I have said before, it is naive to think that everyone will drive the same speed. You yourself have admitted that you will drive 120 on the #1.

The simple fact of the matter is that people WILL drive different speeds. People - and vehicles - are different. Pretending that isn't true won't help.

But what WILL help is everyone just being aware and courteous and staying to the right.

Conversely, trying to be the road police and purposely not moving over, significantly increases the danger level (including for the person doing it).

There is no logical argument against this. And the resistance simply comes down to attitude (screw people that drive faster than me).

Again, yes there will be bad - and even dangerous - drivers out there. But if we all just stop making it our problem (the highway patrol are paid to deal with it), and cooperatively stay to the right, the problem is minimized for all. Including ourselves.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think they are certainly the same topic.
But it seems like those on this side of the conversation only want to talk about the one aspect of this that supports their position.

Why do you think they are the same topic? Please support your position here because there is no obvious rationale I can think of.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

I disagree. Let's try this scenario on HWY 2:

car 1: going 130 in the left lane, passing several cars going 110-120.
car 2: going 140 in in the left lane, catches up to car 1 and rides his ass.

Now, should car 1 slow down and merge into right lane to let car 2 pass? Or should car 2 just wait until car 1 has finished passing the row of slower cars?

My opinion: Car 1 should continue until he has finished passing all cars in the right lane and there's an opportunity to move over where he's not going to get stuck behind another slower-moving car. He should then merge right, and Car 2 should overtake him.

At no point during this process should Car 2 be "riding Car 1's ass". He should maintain a reasonable distance, wait, and, if it were up to me, turn on his left turn signal to indicate he wants to go by.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by polak

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as a guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.

I get that some people really, really, really hate that they can't go fast enough in the left lane. But it's nowhere near the top problem on the road, and it's mainly experienced by people who are already breaking traffic laws. If we're going to invest more resources into traffic regulation enforcement, why not go for the much more common and problematic stuff, like failing to signal, tailgating, or the widespread ignorance of how to merge properly?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And the faster they are going, the faster they will be out of your hair.

Well, if they're tailgating they're engaging in behaviour that is much more dangerous than left-lane struggling. The overriding factors in road safety are speed and following distance.

And has anyone in this thread said they intentionally stay in the left lane when someone is riding their ass? Or defended that behaviour?

What people have said is that in congested traffic, you can be going faster than the cars in the right lane but slower than some cars behind want to go. And in the time it takes to make a safe lane change back into the right line, it's the guy tailgating in the left lane (who is almost certainly exceeding the speed limit by a goodly amount) who is at fault, not the guy isn't willing to do 20+ k over the limit in order to pass at a speed the guy behind him feels entitled to.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If everyone stays to the right and is considerate of those around them, in front of them, and behind them, then everyone is safer.

Exactly. If you're in the left lane doing 20k over the limit and a car in front of you is doing 10 k over the limit while he is passing slower cars in the right lane, then it's time to settle down and ease off the gas pedal.

Originally Posted by Zarley

I don't understand why this is even a debate regarding this. If you are in the left lane and there is a wide open space on your right, you are a poor driver.

Everyone here agrees. The issue is what to do when you're on a congested highway where everyone is doing 100-140, and the gaps in the right-lane are few and far between. Should 80 per cent of the cars stick to the right lane and do 100-110, while 20 per cent zip by in the left doing 130-140? Of should we accept that in congested sections of highway, the right lane will be doing 100-110 while the left is doing 120-125?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think they are certainly the same topic.
But it seems like those on this side of the conversation only want to talk about the one aspect of this that supports their position.

I don't think it changes the point though. If you're driving in the left lane and someone comes up behind you, move over. Speed shouldn't have a bearing on that. You said you do just that, yet keep dragging speed into it.

Traffic is the safest when it flows at the same rate. If everyone around you is doing 120 and you're doing 100, even if the limit is 100, the guy with the most variance from flow is the most dangerous, which in this case is the guy going the speed limit. Now that doesn't say that the people speeding are 100% in the right. In that same scenario, a guy going 140 is also way off the flow, and also a big danger.

But none of that changes the fact that even if the guy doing 140 comes racing up behind you, the safest thing to do in that situation is to move to the right. So I still don't think they're the same topic

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Not what Polak was talking about though. No one is disputing that. That rule, doesn't permit drivers to speed way above the limit.

It always comes back to this. It isn't up to other individuals to decide what is too fast.

It is far better to simply follow the rule and let the police decide what is too fast.

As soon as other motorists are deciding what is too fast or too slow or whatever, trouble ensues.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If we're going to invest more resources into traffic regulation enforcement, why not go for the much more common and problematic stuff, like failing to signal, tailgating, or the widespread ignorance of how to merge properly?

We can address more than one problem at once, but I have to say, failing to signal isn't a problem I see a lot of in comparison. Tailgating, I'm right there with you, that happens a lot and should be ticketed more frequently.

The merging thing is maybe the single most annoying thing on the road, and if I personally had to choose between fixing that and an efficient right / left lane system I'd choose the merging thing without a second thought, but that's actually much harder to address, I think, than instituting a law like BC's.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Why do you think they are the same topic? Please support your position here because there is no obvious rationale I can think of.

Because the speed which people travel is an important element on the overall safety of the roads. The position being put forth by some is that if everyone just moves over to allow people to go whatever speed they want - that everything will be hunkey dorey.

Again - I move over. I don't know how many times I have to say that. My point is that those who are choosing to mow down the road at 140 are just as, if not more dangerous, than those that don't move over.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It always comes back to this. It isn't up to other individuals to decide what is too fast.

It is far better to simply follow the rule and let the police decide what is too fast.

As soon as other motorists are deciding what is too fast or too slow or whatever, trouble ensues.

So you expect people to follow the rule to move to the right, yet don't expect people to follow the rules when it comes to speed.
That about sum it up?

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

I disagree. Let's try this scenario on HWY 2:

car 1: going 130 in the left lane, passing several cars going 110-120.
car 2: going 140 in in the left lane, catches up to car 1 and rides his ass.

Now, should car 1 slow down and merge into the right lane to let car 2 pass? Or should car 2 just wait until car 1 has finished passing the row of slower cars?

Car 1 finishes moves to the right lane when it is safe to do so without having to slow down - ie. when he reaches the next gap in the right lane. Car 2 proceeds onward and moves to the right lane in front of car 1 when there is a gap.

The problem happens when Car 1 decides to pass fifty cars without once moving over. This leads to folks passing on the right and weaving which makes things more dangerous for everyone on the road.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Because the speed which people travel is an important element on the overall safety of the roads. The position being put forth by some is that if everyone just moves over to allow people to go whatever speed they want - that everything will be hunkey dorey.

Again - I move over. I don't know how many times I have to say that. My point is that those who are choosing to mow down the road at 140 are just as, if not more dangerous, than those that don't move over.

It wouldn't be hunkey dorey, just a massive improvement for flow. I don't think anyone is saying that the guy doing 140 isn't an issue.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well, if they're tailgating they're engaging in behaviour that is much more dangerous than left-lane struggling. The overriding factors in road safety are speed and following distance.

This. A thousand times this.
And this is what people seem to be ignoring.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Now that doesn't say that the people speeding are 100% in the right. In that same scenario, a guy going 140 is also way off the flow, and also a big danger.

Then let's start a public awareness campaign to stop those guys from being dbags. Or are they incorrigible?