Alberta Politics Thread

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

I have a question.

Did we actually get the "long term gain" we were promised from the last round of cuts?

Ever since "paid in Full," we seem to have a budget shortfall every other year that nibbled at "Stabilization Fund A" or "Rainy Day fund B"

Yes we did, a business friendly province, low taxes, etc....until something happened. The demographics have changed, and we have a lot of voters who want stuff and want other people to pay for it.

[Resolute 14]

Haha, good ole Notley. "It's not my fault my government is a wreck! Blame the PCs!"

[Tron_fdc]

So can people in the public sector getting pay raises or wage freezes not draw a parallel between oil and gas revenues and the governments ability to pay these costs?

Or do we just not care about stuff like that?

As far as the NDP goes, it actually scares me to think what they might do when times are good. If they're spending like drunken sailors today, can you imagine what they would be doing at $100 oil and $5-$6 gas?

[Tinordi]

It's actually very sound to be running deficits in tough times and trimming back in good times. See the wreckage of austerity in Europe for a poignant exhibit.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's actually very sound to be running deficits in tough times and trimming back in good times. See the wreckage of austerity in Europe for a poignant exhibit.

I can get there as far as infrastructure or similar projects. But not under any circumstances will it end well when its for operations. If you want to term that "austerity" that's fine.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's actually very sound to be running deficits in tough times and trimming back in good times. See the wreckage of austerity in Europe for a poignant exhibit.

You actually think the NDP is capable of that?

[puckedoff]

Good theory, too bad no one ever 'trims back' in good times. Remember, these are politicians we are talking about and they work towards being re-elected.

[Tron_fdc]

People are insane if they think Notley is going to rein in much of anything when the economy turns. We will still be running (bigger) deficits, and the public sector will be getting even bigger pay increases to placate their respective unions.

NOTHING the NDP is doing has proved otherwise.

Again, when you borrow money to cover op costs you're not being fiscally prudent or creating anything other than more debt. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Anyone with even the smallest amount of business acumen will tell you the same thing. It's the stupidest thing you can do....you might as well max out your LOC and go to Vegas with the money.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can get there as far as infrastructure or similar projects. But not under any circumstances will it end well when its for operations. If you want to term that "austerity" that's fine.

Didn't I read that provincial government operating costs increased by 0.2% this year? That Braid article said operating costs increased 122 million of a total cost line of 42 billion. If that's true then put it in your pipe and smoke it.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Good theory, too bad no one ever 'trims back' in good times. Remember, these are politicians we are talking about and they work towards being re-elected.

Critical distinction, these are politicians representing an electorate that doesn't want to see cut backs. Blaming politicians is an easy way out here. What's the famous term? Look in the mirror...

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Didn't I read that provincial government operating costs increased by 0.2% this year? That Braid article said operating costs increased 122 million of a total cost line of 42 billion. If that's true then put it in your pipe and smoke it.

Does it matter what the increase is though? Its the total bill. So if the previous spending can't be supported then we don't just roll on and say "nothing can be done" do we? How irresponsible is that?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Does it matter what the increase is though? Its the total bill. So if the previous spending can't be supported then we don't just roll on and say "nothing can be done" do we? How irresponsible is that?

But if you're concerned with the total bill then why blame the NDP? They've been in government 18 months of the previous 50 years.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Didn't I read that provincial government operating costs increased by 0.2% this year? That Braid article said operating costs increased 122 million of a total cost line of 42 billion. If that's true then put it in your pipe and smoke it.

And where is the money coming from to pay those costs?

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-fiscal-update

Ceci has had to increase borrowing from $5.3 billion to $7 billion just for operations.

and

The NDP government has resisted cutting operational spending amid the downturn, while significantly hiking capital spending through borrowing as an economic stimulus.

You're seriously ok with this?

Or are you just being the devils advocate for something to do?

[Cowboy89]

It scares me that Notley thinks that what Redford's government did was 'austerity'

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

But if you're concerned with the total bill then why blame the NDP? They've been in government 18 months of the previous 50 years.

Because they are spending more? duh.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's actually very sound to be running deficits in tough times and trimming back in good times. See the wreckage of austerity in Europe for a poignant exhibit.

Sure running a deficit can be good in bad times. if you're unemployed and don't have skills and can get a student loan and go back to school that's great. Up grading your car so you can get work delivering packages, probably a great idea.

But if you're going broke, and you're over running your credit card to keep your maid or your nanny, when your sitting at home is stupid, because then your recovery stretches out way longer because your paying interest and getting no value for your money going forward.

Run a deficit and use that deficit 100% for infrastructure spending, or job creation, that's fairly sound economic policy. Running a deficit on operations and making it more and more expensive to borrow money, is bozo the clown economics at its best. The PC's should have been shot out of a canon for getting us down this road, the NDP are absolute idiots for continuing it and pretending its not a problem.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's actually very sound to be running deficits in tough times and trimming back in good times. See the wreckage of austerity in Europe for a poignant exhibit.

But there's little reason to believe Alberta will return to the 'good times' that we saw during the boom. At least not in terms of royalty revenues.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

But if you're concerned with the total bill then why blame the NDP? They've been in government 18 months of the previous 50 years.

You're just being a contrarian now. The reason people vote new parties into power is to change or fix the policies of their predecessors. Relying on windfall energy royalties to fund day-to-day operations was bad policy by the Conservatives. The consequences of that bad policy has come home to roost, and now it's up to the NDP to fix it. They're the government now, and need to act like adults. If they don't, we'll see the Wildrose take power. And then Alberta public servants will learn what austerity really means.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Didn't I read that provincial government operating costs increased by 0.2% this year? That Braid article said operating costs increased 122 million of a total cost line of 42 billion. If that's true then put it in your pipe and smoke it.

Actually that 122 million is forecast over budget for the year. Actual operations spending is about 2.4% more than last year.

[Tinordi]

I don't disagree with any of that. There needs to be a change in policy. The NDP has had one budget. They'll most likely issue a budget update this fall. I'm being a contrarian to the hurricane of hysteria in this thread about the NDP. I get it, times are bad, people are hurting, that's not something to be preening over.

But one of the growing pains of voting out a government that's been in power for generations is that the new government will need to find its feet. If they can't put forward a progressive, effective new vision for policy in this province then they'll deserve the boot, there is no doubt. But don't think that a return to the voodoo economics of WRP or the next flavour of right-wing governments and its whole bankruptcy in new policy ideas to fix the Alberta economy will bring any more success to the table.

[killer_carlson]

When it comes to politics Tinordi will say everything possible to justify a larger, more insulated bureaucracy.

Reality be damned.