Super easy for you to say that. 3 months leading up to the Euro cup they were constantly inundated with talk of an imminent attack, then there was an attack in neighbouring Belgium, then days before the tournament the Ukrainian police foil someone trying to smuggle a mini-armory out of the Ukraine with the intent of bringing it to France, During the tournament every city is on high alert with police in riot gear and armor lining busy districts, then a couple weeks after the tournament ends there's another major attack in Nice, followed by a priest getting his throat slit by islamist terrorists a few weeks later. The French have been in a state of emergency since November, there are pamphlets posted in gas stations, train stations, bulletin boards and on street signs on what to do in case of an attack for crying out loud.
All ####ty things, carried out 100% by male extremists. So France puts an oppressive ban of attire on Muslim women, forcing some women to publicly disrobe partially in public while giving others fines and you think we shouldn't judge them for it? It's barbaric and it's specifically targeting women who have nothing to do with any of the #### you listed above. I'm absolutely judging them for it.
All ####ty things, carried out 100% by male extremists. So France puts an oppressive ban of attire on Muslim women, forcing some women to publicly disrobe partially in public while giving others fines and you think we shouldn't judge them for it? It's barbaric and it's specifically targeting women who have nothing to do with any of the #### you listed above. I'm absolutely judging them for it.
The mayor of Cannes made it sound less about attacking women specifically and more to ban a "symbol of Islamic extremism".
How can you advocate freedom and not let people wear what they want? The French are way off base on this one. Reeks of "secularism" turning into its own form of extremism. I wonder if they would take action against a nun at the beach. Somehow I doubt it.
The ban on the burkini is misguided. But it's not necessarily the knee-jerk anti-Islamic that it's being made out to be.
The French Republic was anti-clerical right from the outset, when hundreds of priests were murdered by revolutionary mobs or fed to the guillotine. Thousands more were forced to abdicate, thrown in prison, conscripted, and forced to marry.
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
France is a deliberately and defiantly secular state. It has always taken a very different approach to religion and it's public symbols than Canada or the U.S.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Yes. I feel they have the right to be angry and scared. It's unfortunate that it's starting to manifest itself with silly discrimination like this.
Go ahead, keep twisting.
No they shouldn't be angry and scared. The media / "we" need to do a better job of educating people on real risk on everything. The propagation of fear and hate by the majority is a real threat right now to personal freedom which has been eroding since 9/11.
Feelings are not reality, look at Trump and Le Pen in France. Entire populist movements based on a feedback loop of people being scared and media driving people to be more scared. It needs to be stopped.
I'm all for judging the policy, I'm not judging them for starting to react.
From that article:
Quote:
Mr Lisnard confirmed to local media that other religious symbols such as the kippah (Jewish skullcap) and the cross would still be permitted, and the ban would not apply to the veil that some Muslim women wear over their hair.
So...a Muslim woman could wear a normal wetsuit and a separate head veil if she wanted?
So...a Muslim woman could wear a normal wetsuit and a separate head veil if she wanted?
I don't think this ban was thought out very well.
Exactly. It's not about Muslim women not being able to come to the beach. It's about them not wanting to see a symbol of islamic oppression after they've been pushed and pushed to the limit by islamic terrorists in the last year.
The crackdown on these sorts of symbols will probably just increase.
Unfortunately, that will probably just make everything worse.
The burkini is obviously a repulsive artifact of oppressive, misogynist culture, but a ban that enables police to force women to take their clothes off in public is a real disgusting piece of authoritarianism.
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Originally Posted by rubecube
Agreed. I also don't know how they're expecting this play out. It's not going to suddenly make Muslim women start wearing less clothing to the beach, or make Muslim men any less misogynistic. All it's going to do is force these women to stay inside and further alienate them from French society.
Nailed it.
Just want to add this, though not about the Burkini:
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Agreed. I also don't know how they're expecting this play out. It's not going to suddenly make Muslim women start wearing less clothing to the beach, or make Muslim men any less misogynistic. All it's going to do is force these women to stay inside and further alienate them from French society.
Way to label about 700 million men misogynistic. I know that's your Favorite word to use but that's simply not true.
Canada's anti masking laws should apply to this as well. Full face covering should be a no go unless it's dead of winter and your rocking a balaclava.
Why? Are they doing anything unlawful?
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From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
I think about this topic a lot. It's a really tough situation. I'm not for banning the Burkini, I think France is out of line here.
Here's a really written article on the subject.
Quote:
But it’s 2016, and to assume a woman who covers up in public, whether on the beach or the grocery store, can’t possibly be doing so by choice removes her agency without any facts.
Even if we presume all women wearing burkinis are doing so by force (which would be absurd), bans on behaviour only further alienate the marginalized. Being told they don’t belong, especially in law, only makes people less likely to participate in society or reach out for help when they need it.
Canada's anti masking laws should apply to this as well. Full face covering should be a no go unless it's dead of winter and your rocking a balaclava.
This week the Trudeau government announced Bill C69 which states that full face masks (whether for religious or personal reasons) are banned from May 1st to September 30th every year.
To be honest I don't agree with any anti masking laws, but I like playing devils advocate. I think if we are going to have them make them across the board. I know our anti masking laws pertain to protests and covering your face in the omission of a crime, but it's also moved into businesses as well. If I gotta take my toque or shades off when I'm in a bank or public building, I'm wondering what the rules are for burkas? Honestly curious if people who wear them have to take them off at a bank or at govt buildings.
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Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Your looking at it wrong. You don't expand a restriction because it's similar to other restrictions. You would expand a restriction if the causes for the restriction are the same.
So if people start robbing banks in Burkas then you deal with the issue but you don't ban a burka because people rob banks in Balaclavas.
As an aside can you really not have your face obscured in a bank? Is that a real law, or just a businesses policy.
I saw a woman at Lake Bonavista on the weekend in the Muslim outfit with just her face poking out (not the full on beekeeper suit). All the kids and men in the family were playing in the water and she was sitting there all sullen at the picnic table. I wanted to buy her a burkini so she could enjoy the water like everybody else yet still be wearing what makes her comfortable. Banning the burkini is a total a-hole move.
I also like that you can wear a turban in the RCMP and I remember when that was a big controversy in the 90s.
