The New American Politics thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Itse

Btw, I'm pretty sure the "2nd amendment" thing from Trump was just another joke that mostly shows his bad taste and lack of judgment.

I'm gonna disagree for one pretty obvious reason: know your audience. A Donald Trump rally is largely made up of people who, to varying degrees, believe the following:

Hillary is a criminal
Hillary should be summarirly jailed without a trial
Hillary is personally responsible for many deaths
Hillary is a witch/the devil
Hillary is going to destroy "their America"
Hillary is trying to import Islam to genocide white people
Hillary should be killed (this has been documented at many Trump rallies)

Do you think anyone in that hall took that as a joke? Almost certainly not. Did most non-Trump supporters think it was a joke? Nope. So that leaves few to no people who could interpret that as a joke. If it was a joke, it was delivered to the wrong audience to take it as a joke, or was the worst joke ever. What I think you mean is he wasn't being serious about what he said, he was just trash talking, and like the mental midget he is didn't realize his supporters hate her so much that it's much more likely that they take that as more literal than as a joke.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That's all very logical. But this is Trump. He's not thinking logically. He's not thinking about his audience or anything else half the time. He's just doing. This occurred to him to say, so he said it.

[bubbsy]

That's the best part of all these controversies that supporters of trump argue are being blown out of proportion by bias media.

Whether his comments were an innocent plea for 2nd amendmenters or were just a off cuff joke or an actual threat is totally up for interpretation is open to interpretation. Even if it is the first of the three possibilities it plays right into the "unfit, wrong temperament" narrative the the democrats are pushing. Can a person who can't even understand how to communicate clearly without leaving rubbing a ton of folks the wrong way due to poor articulation can the rwally be the commander and chief of the country.

His inability to adjust is laughable and a more pressing reason for why he shouldn't win than the endless interpretation debates of things he says.

What's better is Clinton getting to slip thru her own controversies as trumps idiocy keeps her off the front page.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That's all very logical. But this is Trump. He's not thinking logically. He's not thinking about his audience or anything else half the time. He's just doing. This occurred to him to say, so he said it.

Oh for sure, that's why I said he's just trash talking like a prepubescent boy. When we talked trash when we were that age it was mostly verbal diarrhea, we just said whatever and didn't give a #### because we didn't know any better. It's a pretty pathetic indictment of a 70 year old man that he doesn't know better.

[The Fonz]

I put this post in the wrong thread last night... was meant for here. Regarding Trump's 2A comments yesterday:

Originally Posted by The Fonz

https://twitter.com/secretservice/st...42627202048000

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^ I guess the US Secret Service is part of the "Outrage Patrol".

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

^^ I guess the US Secret Service is part of the "Outrage Patrol".

That looks to me more like they got tired of people telling them about Trump's speech. "Yah, yah, we know - we were there. Stop sending us Youtube links."

Would it ever suck to be assigned to Trump's security detail, knowing you're expected to give your life if necessary to save that of a truly reprehensible and useless human being.

[Street Pharmacist]

Now that I've had some time to digest it I don't think Trump meant assassination. I think he was simply trying to get the "second amendment people" riled up to vote.

It's more worrying that he can't tell the difference and once again, shows that his policies aren't what should scare people. What if he's making this pitch about a foreign leader?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

In context, yeah it was obviously a joke, and not something scripted either. It just shows that he's impulsive, speaks without thinking and doesn't really think about consequences or implications of what he's doing.

In one context, it could be interpreted as a joke. In the actual context of his speech, it was no joke and should not be interpreted as such. Trump spoke these words from a podium in the midst of a political rally. That is the actual context of importance, not the textual context. You have to be aware that there is rhetoric used in this sphere that may appear to be benign but is loaded language that meant to reach a particular audience. These dog whistle terms activate raw emotions that cause certain people to react specific ways. Trump, the master manipulator knows this, so there is no excuse for his comment.

The Journal of Contemporary Rhetoric had an excellent essay on this issue back after the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson. The author speaks to the strength of ideological orientations and disruptions leading to confrontation. He also speaks to the long history of dangerous anti-government rhetoric and the dangerous outcomes. He is wise to distance himself from directly laying the blame of the Giffords shooting at the feet of Sharron "second amendment remedies" Angle and Sarah "don't retreat, reload" Palin, identifying Loughner's mental illness as the largest factor in this event, but correctly points out this language contributes heavily to the tone of the campaign and sends messages out to specific types of individuals. For example, less than a month after Giffords was shot down at her event a supporter of Representative Paul Brown was asked by one of his constituents, "who was going to shoot Obama?"

The incredible spike in gun purchases, the hoarding of ammunition, the rapid growth of anti-government militias, and the anti-government actions that have been on display since Obama took office is indicative of this rhetoric having an impact. Once perc over leaders start using this distasteful rhetoric if give followers the confidence they can speak with the same conviction, and worse, act out of those convictions.

There is no excuse for this type of rhetoric because of the context from which Trump was delivering his message. Period.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by New Era

In one context, it could be interpreted as a joke. In the actual context of his speech, it was no joke and should not be interpreted as such. Trump spoke these words from a podium in the midst of a political rally. That is the actual context of importance, not the textual context. You have to be aware that there is rhetoric used in this sphere that may appear to be benign but is loaded language that meant to reach a particular audience. These dog whistle terms activate raw emotions that cause certain people to react specific ways. Trump, the master manipulator knows this, so there is no excuse for his comment.

The Journal of Contemporary Rhetoric had an excellent essay on this issue back after the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson. The author speaks to the strength of ideological orientations and disruptions leading to confrontation. He also speaks to the long history of dangerous anti-government rhetoric and the dangerous outcomes. He is wise to distance himself from directly laying the blame of the Giffords shooting at the feet of Sharron "second amendment remedies" Angle and Sarah "don't retreat, reload" Palin, identifying Loughner's mental illness as the largest factor in this event, but correctly points out this language contributes heavily to the tone of the campaign and sends messages out to specific types of individuals. For example, less than a month after Giffords was shot down at her event a supporter of Representative Paul Brown was asked by one of his constituents, "who was going to shoot Obama?"

The incredible spike in gun purchases, the hoarding of ammunition, the rapid growth of anti-government militias, and the anti-government actions that have been on display since Obama took office is indicative of this rhetoric having an impact. Once perc over leaders start using this distasteful rhetoric if give followers the confidence they can speak with the same conviction, and worse, act out of those convictions.

There is no excuse for this type of rhetoric because of the context from which Trump was delivering his message. Period.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, just that Trump is not able to discern these differences or stop the nonsense tumbling from his yap

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Now that I've had some time to digest it I don't think Trump meant assassination. I think he was simply trying to get the "second amendment people" riled up to vote.

It's more worrying that he can't tell the difference and once again, shows that his policies aren't what should scare people. What if he's making this pitch about a foreign leader?

Actually, I think it shows that BOTH his policies and his personality should scare people.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Is Trump the first person ever to be simultaneously protected by AND investigated by the Secret Service?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, just that Trump is not able to discern these differences or stop the nonsense tumbling from his yap

Trump is a sociopath, not stupid. He is a master manipulator and knows how to choose his words. He loves to hear his own voice, he loves to stir up the ####, but he chooses his words carefully to have the greatest effect. This is definitely a situation where Trump knew what he was going to say and where he was going to drag this conversation. It was a masterful piece of framing on his part. He did not just stumble into that comment by speaking off the cuff.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by New Era

Trump is a sociopath, not stupid. He is a master manipulator and knows how to choose his words. He loves to hear his own voice, he loves to stir up the ####, but he chooses his words carefully to have the greatest effect. This is definitely a situation where Trump knew what he was going to say and where he was going to drag this conversation. It was a masterful piece of framing on his part. He did not just stumble into that comment by speaking off the cuff.

Umm. Ok. Have you read any transcript of any of his rallies? They're mumbling nonsense the quarters of the time.

You're giving him waaaaaaaaaayyyyy too much credit here.

An intelligent person would've changed these career suicidal tactics by now. He simply can't help himself in front of a crowd

[Senator Clay Davis]

In 2007, Trump admits to lying 30 times. Great read.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...on/trump-lies/

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, just that Trump is not able to discern these differences or stop the nonsense tumbling from his yap

Oh I think Trump knew what he was doing even if it was a bit impetuous. He can backtrack and say it was a joke or he meant to get out the second amendment guys votes but they both knew what he meant.

[2Stonedbirds]

So Trump was merely misunderstood or joking when he made his 2nd amd comment?

That's great. So in the off chance that he becomes president we can watch this asshat make unclear comments across the table to someone like say, Putin? Great. Just great.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

So Trump was merely misunderstood or joking when he made his 2nd amd comment?

That's great. So in the off chance that he becomes president we can watch this asshat make unclear comments across the table to someone like say, Putin? Great. Just great.

Well Putin would have already told him what to say...if you believe the tinfoil hatters lol
But yes, it would be a disaster.

[2Stonedbirds]

At a time when relations with Russia are at such a low mark, NATO moved their Aegis missle system into Romania, a violation of a 1987 treaty, mothered their missle defense system smack dab on Russia's border, Russia is deploying mobile ICBM systems onto their side of the border and running drills, never mind the hundred of tanks, helicopters and large numbers of troops deployed to their western border, ex Russian foreign minister is saying they will strike first, ex NATO senior general says a nuclear war is coming in 2017...

...and Trump is gonna square things up? Doubtful. Hell Clinton isn't either.

Russia may be inconsistent in policy and rhetoric, but one thing they are consistent on through their entire history is protecting the mother land.

Last thing we need is Trump making smart ass comments across the table from Putin. May have worked with former NY mayors, it ain't gonna jive with Ivan.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, just that Trump is not able to discern these differences or stop the nonsense tumbling from his yap

Exactly. He's not a supervillain. He's not a moustache twirling evil genius who's subtly tricking everyone with his bumbling moron act. He's just not particularly engaged and doesn't think about what will happen when he does this stuff.

The problems that New Era highlighted are absolutely consequences that can occur when politicians talk this way, but all of that flies over his head, because he doesn't particularly care about any of it. That's irresponsible and dangerous, and wilfully so, so he's obviously blameworthy. But this "master manipulator" stuff is, indeed, giving a guy who's got some talent for conning average people, and no real intellect, far more credit than he deserves.