Fentanyl crisis in Calgary: Vice documentary

[polak]

Name any city in the world and you will find someone that hates it.

Amsterdam was great. I was there for a short time but it was far cleaner than your average European city so calling it dirty was a weird comment. I also noticed there was way less drug and sex related stuff than I was expecting. You had a few coffeeshops (weed cafes) and the red light district (which is one road and few off shooting alleys), but besides that? Seemed pretty modern and had a lot of art and culture events and museums.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I didn't deny that, just spoke to the fact there's more going on in the city. I didn't go to Amsterdam for a 'drug holiday' and took offense to that statement.





Nice deflection post though.



You know you're on the wrong side of the argument when Peter is agreeing with you.

I'll take Peter agreeing with me over making my argument "I've been to Amsterdam! It had tulips! You are old men that I don't like and I am cultured so I know better!"

So condescending. You wouldn't even take the word of a guy who LIVED in Holland.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Where did I say that????????

Now, you've been to Amsterdam. Great. It's a mecca for drug use holidays

Uhh, here? I say I've been to Holland and you reply with this.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Uhh, here? I say I've been to Holland and you reply with this.

Because you pointed out your experience about drug laws and pointed out they were not representative of Holland drug laws. I didn't think you did go to Holland for that. Sorry if that was your interpretation, I thought that was clear

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I wouldn't expect a bitter old man to find any enjoyment there.

I found plenty of enjoyment, though less when I was 32 than when I was 19. That's not surprising, as I was mainly interested in getting wasted when I was 19.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There is some amazing architecture throughout the city. Markets everywhere and tulips around every corner.

And the only place I saw noticeably wasted tourists was red light district. Maybe you should spend less time there next time and actually explore the city.

Maybe you should try venturing further afield than Amsterdam. Sounds like you'd really like a city like Leiden.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by polak

Name any city in the world and you will find someone that hates it.

Amsterdam was great. I was there for a short time but it was far cleaner than your average European city so calling it dirty was a weird comment. I also noticed there was way less drug and sex related stuff than I was expecting. You had a few coffeeshops (weed cafes) and the red light district (which is one road and few off shooting alleys), but besides that? Seemed pretty modern and had a lot of art and culture events and museums.

Yeah no kidding. I was actually blown away by how clean Amsterdam was. I remember pulling up to our hostel around 9 am, and the streets were just junked from the night before. Then around 9:30 a bunch of street zambonis came out and within 30 minutes the whole place was fricking spotless. It was crazy.

The gratuitous drug use really is isolated to a pretty small area. And the city is absolutely beautiful.

[peter12]

Yes, Vancouver is a lovely city, but it doesn't take away the fact that East Hastings is a rotting abscess - even if it is only relegated to a few blocks.

[Senator Clay Davis]

True story: Every single major metropolitan city has undesirable areas people don't like to be anywhere near.

[peter12]

People bring up East Hastings, or Amsterdam, or Freetown Christiania because of the particular political connotations associated with the undesirability, which you are correct to say is otherwise ubiquitous.

[Senator Clay Davis]

East Hastings is also way better than it used to be, back when it had the highest concentration of HIV/AIDS outside of sub-Saharan Africa. It's nowhere near as much of a hole as it was say 10-15 years ago.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

East Hastings is also way better than it used to be, back when it had the highest concentration of HIV/AIDS outside of sub-Saharan Africa. It's nowhere near as much of a hole as it was say 10-15 years ago.

Yes, gentrification.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Fentanyl is really only the tip of the iceberg right now in the synthetic opiates world. Carfentanil, which has already been located in Calgary and various regions of Canada, is even worse. 100 times more potent then fentanyl and 10 000 times more potent then morphine.

What do these numbers mean? I had morphine in the hospital once. Push that button and get a little shot of it when you need it. One hit of this Carfentanil stuff would be like hitting that button 10,000 times?

Not trying to be snarky here, honest question. I don't know anything about drugs or how they are measured.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

True story: Every single major metropolitan city has undesirable areas people don't like to be anywhere near.

Yup its usually called Martin Luther King Blvd

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yup its usually called Martin Luther King Blvd

The journey to the Martin Luther King museum in Atlanta, Georgia is harrowing to say the least.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What do these numbers mean? I had morphine in the hospital once. Push that button and get a little shot of it when you need it. One hit of this Carfentanil stuff would be like hitting that button 10,000 times?

Not trying to be snarky here, honest question. I don't know anything about drugs or how they are measured.

It's more about margins of error.

If a drug is 10,000x stronger from a therapeutic perspective, it's irrelevant because you just give 10,000x less. However, you need very sophisticated equipment to separate doses and the risk of accidental overdose goes up as you increase potency. If I showed you 40mg and 80mg of a powder you'd notice the difference. If I did that with 0.004mg and 0.008mg you would not be able to tell the difference. The likelihood of adding too much is huge

[Coach]

I've basically circumnavigated Vancouver on foot over the last few days, and it really is quite lovely. I have to say though, for a place so full of environmentally friendly people, people certainly like to throw trash on the ground. The streets of Calgary are much cleaner IMO.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I've basically circumnavigated Vancouver on foot over the last few days, and it really is quite lovely. I have to say though, for a place so full of environmentally friendly people, people certainly like to throw trash on the ground. The streets of Calgary are much cleaner IMO.

Have you encountered the soft-totalitarian sorting bins yet?

ARE YOU SURE THAT IS TRASH!?!

[Street Pharmacist]

I should clarify my stance. As I said earlier in the thread, there needs to be good access to save opiates for addicts. Methadone and suboxone are good options, as is safe injection sites.

Decriminalization of small possession is a very good idea. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS LEGALIZATION. It simply means people don't go to jail or get criminal records for possession of a personal amount. Jail will not fix these people and it's not a deterrent, so we're wasting our money. We all need to prosecute possession with community service, etc. As brought up by Thor, Portugal is a good lesson here.
Legalization and routine sales is a pipe dream IMO. No longer can we monitor prescription opiate abuse then and that scares the living bejesus out of me. These drugs are already legal with tight controls that certainly could be improved, but it's quite scary to think of my patients being able to just go get some whenever they want

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

No one has died from opiate withdrawal

Actually you can, and people do die from withdrawal, granted there are other underlying health issues, the physical shock to the body can cause death in someone elderly or weakened by other illness.
It doesn't happen if the withdrawal is monitored in hospital as the doctors will taper the doses down but it happens in jail every now and then where they are less sympathetic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

Have you encountered the soft-totalitarian sorting bins yet?

ARE YOU SURE THAT IS TRASH!?!

'Have you taken the top of that trash? The cap goes into a different bin, that's not glass, I'm not taking your bottles if you haven't cleaned them and removed the caps, you'll be getting a warning letter next week.'