I honestly think it's more current issues like % of money paid in bonus ... the lock out buy out proof stuff that some teams are handing out.
I can see Treliving playing hard ball on those issues and the agents holding off and insisting.
Additionally I think the two of them want the same contract which might pose a problem if the Gaudreau camp is trying to drag Monahan's contract up.
This is exactly what I think is holding things up. The CBA is due to expire in a few years, which is a prime year for both. The agents want to make sure if there is a stoppage their client doesn't lose out. The % on the contract in signing bonus IMO is the sticking point.
Currently Gaudreau does have a size advantage. He's so agile with his turning and lateral movement that catching him is nearly impossible currently.
He'll dangle the puck out like a carrot on a stick and just wait for a few moments. When the defender moves Johhny takes off and leaves the defender out of position. Right now the opposition is afraid of Johhny not the reverse.
Even when he does get hit he anticipates and deflects the impact into angular momentum. The odds of Johnny getting hurt is about as low as anyone in the league, hitting him is like catching a snake that can wriggle out of any bad situation.
That one hit bad hit he took in camp years back was a blatant cheap shot other than that he's given out just as many hits as he takes. Johhny hit Byfuglien harder than anyone I've ever seen, think about that. Good luck catching Johhny, it's nearly impossible. He can turn on a dime and he always has his head up.
Didn't Connor McDavid dream of being a Leaf? I think if Gaudreau was from say, eastern Canada, you wouldn't be hearing about these "he wants to go back east! He's going to LEAVE!" rumours nearly as much with him.
It's just a classic case of a good ol' Canadian inferiority complex towards the States that's fueling the media's take on this.
Currently Gaudreau does have a size advantage. He's so agile with his turning and lateral movement that catching him is nearly impossible currently.
He'll dangle the puck out like a carrot on a stick and just wait for a few moments. When the defender moves Johhny takes off and leaves the defender out of position. Right now the opposition is afraid of Johhny not the reverse.
Even when he does get hit he anticipates and deflects the impact into angular momentum. The odds of Johnny getting hurt is about as low as anyone in the league, hitting him is like catching a snake that can wriggle out of any bad situation.
That one hit bad hit he took in camp years back was a blatant cheap shot other than that he's given out just as many hits as he takes. Johhny hit Byfuglien harder than anyone I've ever seen, think about that. Good luck catching Johhny, it's nearly impossible. He can turn on a dime and he always has his head up.
For those of you who listened to entire segment (only BT part available for free). Curious what the 5 areas to address were?
Can someone summarize the rest of the hour discussion?
Any Flames replay?
I listened. The 5 questions I can remember in no particular order were
1) is goaltending enough,
2) will they make the playoffs (Boomer and Jake Hahn both said they fall just short)
3) over/under on 13/23 contracts at 13M. Jake said right at that. Boomer thinks Johnny gets at least $7.5M, Sean 6 to 6.5, so over $13M.
4) something about Hamilton and will he have a better year. Boomer loves Hamilton and thought he was great outside of a bad start. Jake thinks he needs to be better and isn't currently with the contract. Boomer disagreed
They talked about how much fun the Flames are to watch and Boomer gushed about Johnny a lot. He also hates when players sign long deals early and thinks Brodie left way too much on the table by signing did what he did for so long.
Can't remember much else. Nothing new obviously, but Boomer is the rare easterner that watches western games regularly. Still think he has more to say about eastern teams, but knows the western teams far better than most
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^ Thanks SP. Bummed I missed this as that channel is the only place to get hockey talk here in US when in the car. I believe #4 on the list is a big deal.
Perhaps you could try reiterating the point you think you're making in one clear, concise sentence.
Because the real damage from taking big hits in hockey is sustained and reoccurring damage to the brain, which can happen regardless of how big you are (see Lindros etc).
Gaudreau is one of the most elusive, heads-up players in the game. I think the concern he's one hit away from oblivion is a contrived, manufactured falsehood.
For CTE, that's true. But the physics are undeniable. A bigger blow results in more rotation movement along the lateral axis, which is the biggest contributing factor for triggering a concussion. The helmets protect against projectile local blows, like safety glasses protect against debris, so the head rotates based on the forces of a collision. I know this because of my involvement with CSA standards.
Now we know not every hit results in a concussion. Anyone who's played sports will tell you they've been knocked down, accidentally taken elbows and sticks to the head and received no concussion, but those who have, received a big hit to trigger it. At least a hit directly to the head or one that caused their head to move quickly and extensively on the neck, either side to side or up and down.
So again, what's the driver behind forces in a collision? Well, you have moment, so the position the body was in that makes it vulnerable, or the position your opponent is in that makes them advantageous. And you have mass and speed. These are mathematical laws. And things like "Gaudreau is sneaky" might make for good variables for the moment, but in a controlled study, all things being equal, Gaudreau is more likely to sustain a concussion than a player of larger mass. That is not refutable.
A lighter player in a collision WILL sustain more lateral movement of the head because the opposing player is delivering more force than what would be delivered when colliding with a heavier player.
Last edited by MarkGio; 08-07-2016 at 11:22 AM.
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]but in a controlled study, all things being equal, Gaudreau is more likely to sustain a concussion than a player of larger mass. That is not refutable.
It's a good thing he's signing a contract to play in the NHL and not in a controlled study, because as it is, the biggest factor to avoiding head injury in hockey is awareness and keeping your head up. Something he's shown he's one of the better players in the league at.
I'll ask a 2nd time: what is the point you're trying to make, it one clear concise sentence?
I listened. The 5 questions I can remember in no particular order were
1) is goaltending enough,
2) will they make the playoffs (Boomer and Jake Hahn both said they fall just short)
3) over/under on 13/23 contracts at 13M. Jake said right at that. Boomer thinks Johnny gets at least $7.5M, Sean 6 to 6.5, so over $13M.
4) something about Hamilton and will he have a better year. Boomer loves Hamilton and thought he was great outside of a bad start. Jake thinks he needs to be better and isn't currently with the contract. Boomer disagreed
They talked about how much fun the Flames are to watch and Boomer gushed about Johnny a lot. He also hates when players sign long deals early and thinks Brodie left way too much on the table by signing did what he did for so long.
Can't remember much else. Nothing new obviously, but Boomer is the rare easterner that watches western games regularly. Still think he has more to say about eastern teams, but knows the western teams far better than most
You mustn't have been listening that closely, both Boomer and Jake said they would make the playoffs.
Johnny's been caught sleeping before... but it was a pretty elite player who did it.
And Datsuk is 5'11, 190lbs. Imagine Gaudreau gets caught sleeping against a player like Big Buff?
I just don't get these probability statements, because it assumes Johnny is going to be perfect all the time, which isn't true of any person. Look at the elite goalie who trains his whole life and then let's in a floater from the blue-line. Everyone has an accident.
Gaudreau has a lot of opportunities for exposure. He gets the most ice time, he will be selected for team USA any given tournament, and so when considering probability of an event one must consider frequency and severity, Gaudreau has his vulnerabilities. While I would agree he's softer and more slippery than other players, I also know the severity of impact is more damaging to Gaudreau than a player who has 50 pounds on him.
It's a good thing he's signing a contract to play in the NHL and not in a controlled study, because as it is, the biggest factor to avoiding head injury in hockey is awareness and keeping your head up. Something he's shown he's one of the better players in the league at.
I'll ask a 2nd time: what is the point you're trying to make, it one clear concise sentence?
So what? There's still the law of averages. We know a game of hockey is chaos and perhaps it's possible we see a 15 goal game, but regardless there's going to be an average score that's easily predictable within a margin of error.
Johnny will get hit. I know this even of it's not a controlled study.
You mustn't have been listening that closely, both Boomer and Jake said they would make the playoffs.
You're correct. Just listened again and Boomer definitely thinks so, Jake waffled and said he thinks they squeak a wild card spot
Edit and the other question was "Should they revisit Hudler?". While they both said no, they did think it was a reasonable option and he'd be a good bargain
And Datsuk is 5'11, 190lbs. Imagine Gaudreau gets caught sleeping against a player like Big Buff?
I just don't get these probability statements, because it assumes Johnny is going to be perfect all the time, which isn't true of any person. Look at the elite goalie who trains his whole life and then let's in a floater from the blue-line. Everyone has an accident.
Gaudreau has a lot of opportunities for exposure. He gets the most ice time, he will be selected for team USA any given tournament, and so when considering probability of an event one must consider frequency and severity, Gaudreau has his vulnerabilities. While I would agree he's softer and more slippery than other players, I also know the severity of impact is more damaging to Gaudreau than a player who has 50 pounds on him.
Are we sure about that? Wouldn't any hit that ends up career-ending likely be so for any other player, regardless of size? Being bigger and weighing more doesn't make your bones stronger, or your brain concussion-proof. If any player takes an unsuspecting flying elbow from Buff, they're going to feel it. Any hit that would shred his knee would shred anyone's. I don't think an extra 50lbs helps with someone cheapshotting you in the face.
Hockey's a dangerous game, there is pretty much the same likelihood of any one player taking a career-ending hit as anyone else.
It's not that people don't understand the physics, it's that the possibility is always out there, for every player. So why even worry about it? It may happen, it may not. It may happen to Tkachuk, or Bennett, or Monahan too.
It's pretty clear that he's missing the fact anyone is susceptible to a head injury at any time.
I'm more interested in having him stop moving the goal-posts and coming right out with what he's ultimately getting at as to what this has to do with Gaudreau, the Flames and the contract they're currently working on.
And Datsuk is 5'11, 190lbs. Imagine Gaudreau gets caught sleeping against a player like Big Buff?
I just don't get these probability statements, because it assumes Johnny is going to be perfect all the time, which isn't true of any person. Look at the elite goalie who trains his whole life and then let's in a floater from the blue-line. Everyone has an accident.
Gaudreau has a lot of opportunities for exposure. He gets the most ice time, he will be selected for team USA any given tournament, and so when considering probability of an event one must consider frequency and severity, Gaudreau has his vulnerabilities. While I would agree he's softer and more slippery than other players, I also know the severity of impact is more damaging to Gaudreau than a player who has 50 pounds on him.
The only reason Datsyuk could catch Johnny is because he is equally elusive and good on his edges. Big Buff can throw the body big time, but not in the way that Datsyuk demonstrates on that play
It's pretty clear that he's missing the fact anyone is susceptible to a head injury at any time.
I'm more interested in having him stop moving the goal-posts and coming right out with what he's ultimately getting at as to what this has to do with Gaudreau, the Flames and the contract they're currently working on.
He's now clearly avoiding answering that.
Lol. No, you're just so egotistical you believe I answer to you. News flash: I'll post how I want, when I want, to whom I want, etc. If I feel you deserve any more of my time, I will provide irregardless of your wants.
I'm not missing any facts. There's a law of physics. So even though it's true anyone can experience a career ending injury, just like anyone can suffer a deadly car cash, doesn't mean certain vehicles involved (ie semi-trucks vs smart cars) aren't more likely to be more severe than your average collision. That doesn't mean a person can't die from a collision involving two small sedans, it means Id still much rather be in a semi truck than a sedan based on severity, regardless of average events.
The only reason Datsyuk could catch Johnny is because he is equally elusive and good on his edges. Big Buff can throw the body big time, but not in the way that Datsyuk demonstrates on that play
Perhaps. However, even the best make mistakes. I once saw Gretzky skate backwards to look behind him when on a break away and he skated ahead of the puck to go offside. I once saw one of the best goalies in the regular season this past year let in the worst possible floater.
Gaudreau will slip and get hit, whether it was Datsuk or by someone else. Or he becomes complacent and assumes he's not going to get a cheap shot and he does.
