Black Lives Matter get police float kicked out of Pride Parade

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blankall

And LGBTory is actually a splinter organization formed by LGBT member of the Conservative party:

http://www.lgbtory.ca/

The group includes Trans members, who seem to be just fine with the LGBTory thing. I don't see any evidence here that this is an official party stance designed to change the public image of the party. It looks to be a spontaneous movement formed by already existing LGBT members of the Conservative Party.

No blankall, just no. It was decidedly malicious and you should be outraged.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ernie

"Correcting" for violent crime racial make-up just further illustrates the issue in the US when it comes to inner cities, education etc. Instead of trying to justify why the rate isn't as bad as it looks or if we divide by this and this it's actually less how about recognize that racism in the US is a huge issue and it's not getting better.

Well yes, that's exactly what we should doing - looking at the root causes of social dysfunction and crime. But since most of these incidents happen in high-crime neighbourhoods (white and black) I wouldn't expect the racial disparity in police shooting to come down until the racial disparity in crime comes down.

[Northendzone]

that video of the shooting in Minnesota is difficult to watch and it will be interesting to see how it plays out because if i understand the situation, the man that was shot was apparently carrying a gun (with a carry permit) and without laying any blame or saying it was deserved - it is easy to see how things could go sideways in a traffic stop situation when the gun is spotted.

personally i think everyone's life matters......and perhaps one day MLK's dream will be fully realized

[ernie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well yes, that's exactly what we should doing - looking at the root causes of social dysfunction and crime. But since most of these incidents happen in high-crime neighbourhoods (white and black) I wouldn't expect the racial disparity in police shooting to come down until the racial disparity in crime comes down.

The problem is that there is built in racial bias in the justice system. That is independent on racial disparity in crime. Black offenders are charged more often and are given stiffer sentences for the same crimes (part of the problem is stats are based on charged people). That is why Black Lives Matter. White, middle-class people don't need a movement they are already inherently winning.

Black Lives Matters and similar movements do more than complain as well. They offer up solutions and suggestions. Those things are ignored but they are there for everyone to see and investigate.

I'll be honest I find it hard to explain and until I lived in the States for a good long while it was hard to even comprihend. Racism is alive and well in the States. Well it's alive and well everywhere but ti still very much thrives in the US.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

that video of the shooting in Minnesota is difficult to watch and it will be interesting to see how it plays out because if i understand the situation, the man that was shot was apparently carrying a gun (with a carry permit) and without laying any blame or saying it was deserved - it is easy to see how things could go sideways in a traffic stop situation when the gun is spotted.

personally i think everyone's life matters......and perhaps one day MLK's dream will be fully realized

I've only watch that video once, and again I have no idea what lead up to the officer shooting, so I won't comment on the validity or justification of the officer shooting.

What stood out to me in my one viewing was hearing (what i assume is) the officer in the background and how distraught he is post shooting.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ernie

White, middle-class people don't need a movement they are already inherently winning.

If the issue is trigger-happy police, and Americans of all races are shot by trigger-happy police, then I'd say a movement to address trigger-happy policing in general would be useful to everyone.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Do you honestly think that "erasing" one of the core identities was the intent? C'mon man. Feel free to say "LGBTory" is misguided as a slogan for that reason, but you are clearly manufacturing ill intent.

Yeah, I actually need to stop posting on CP when I first wake up because I'm grump AF in the morning.

Whether it was malicious or not, it shows that the purpose of it was insincere self-promotion as opposed to actual concern and care for the entire LGBTQ community. Someone with sincere concern and care wouldn't have made that mistake, or at the very least might have gotten in touch with an advocacy group before going ahead with it. This is the entire point PepsiFree and I are trying to make when we talk about the criticism of what Pride has become and it has some very real impacts that I don't think a lot of people here have considered.

Pride was initially a platform for the entire LGBTQ community and it was built and developed by all of the members of that community, not just gays and lesbians. It has been incredibly successful and important for furthering gay rights. In recent years gay rights have become more mainstream and accepted, which is great.

The issue is that with this mainstream success, the Pride movement has attempted become more commercialized and in this process ditched much of the content that was designed as platform for trans activists and queers of colour. As you can imagine the trans and QoC activists who were an integral part of Pride's initial success have felt betrayed and have also lost an important platform for trans activism. It's great that gay rights have become normalized but not so great that many in the Pride movement have been complicit in stranding trans & QoC issues on the fringe.

EDIT: And I missed blankall's post, so also, my bad.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by ernie

The problem is that there is built in racial bias in the justice system. That is independent on racial disparity in crime. Black offenders are charged more often and are given stiffer sentences for the same crimes (part of the problem is stats are based on charged people). That is why Black Lives Matter. White, middle-class people don't need a movement they are already inherently winning.

Can you produce some science to prove that this is just based on race? I can see a black person with a long criminal history getting a much stiffer sentence than a white guy with no criminal record for the same crime and vice versa, that's kind of how the justice system works. Certainly poverty plays a role but the white supremacist in small town Texas has nothing to do with that with the black guy getting a murder charge in Chicago.

Please provide with some backup to that claim. science.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Can you produce some science to prove that this is just based on race? I can see a black person with a long criminal history getting a much stiffer sentence than a white guy with no criminal record for the same crime and vice versa, that's kind of how the justice system works. Certainly poverty plays a role but the white supremacist in small town Texas has nothing to do with that with the black guy getting a murder charge in Chicago.

Please provide with some backup to that claim. science.

Well there was the whole stiffer sentences for crack vs. cocaine that was going on for a while in some areas.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Can you produce some science to prove that this is just based on race? I can see a black person with a long criminal history getting a much stiffer sentence than a white guy with no criminal record for the same crime and vice versa, that's kind of how the justice system works. Certainly poverty plays a role but the white supremacist in small town Texas has nothing to do with that with the black guy getting a murder charge in Chicago.

Please provide with some backup to that claim. science.

It's also an issue of institutionalized poverty and racism. If you have less money, you will have less access to lawyers and other ways of navigating the justice system. The biggest issue is that in America blacks were slaves not too long ago. After slavery ended, they weren't given any kind of restitution. Instead, they were ghettoized. People want to treat this like it was ancient history and something that black populations should have gotten over by now. However, formalized segregation was still happening as late as the 1960s. After it ended, the perception of blacks as criminals has persisted. For example, you have Bernie Sanders (a very pro-civil rights candidate) saying that all blacks live in ghettos. These perceptions of black Americans as poor and criminal become self-fulfilling prophecies.

While you right, that poverty may play a larger role than race, blacks are more likely to both impoverished and perceived as impoverished/criminal. This is why they need special organizations to deal with issues specific to them.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by rubecube

As you can imagine the trans and QoC activists who were an integral part of Pride's initial success have felt betrayed and have also lost an important platform for trans activism. It's great that gay rights have become normalized but not so great that many in the Pride movement have been complicit in stranding trans & QoC issues on the fringe.

Last year in Vancouver the entire theme of pride week was trans rights, at the parade it was up and down the entire parade not just a small part of it.

As pride has grown i think the trans movement has lost visibility but only because the size of the event going on around it is growing, not because of exclusion.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Last year in Vancouver the entire theme of pride week was trans rights, at the parade it was up and down the entire parade not just a small part of it.

As pride has grown i think the trans movement has lost visibility but only because the size of the event going on around it is growing, not because of exclusion.

I think it varies city to city too. But yeah, I wasn't trying to say that the gay movement was intentionally trying to exclude the trans movement, although according to some of the folks I know there are issues with transmisogyny that come up in the gay community, just that this was a grievance among trans activists.

Which actually kind of brings me to another point. I think there are a number of people on here who see certain grievances as petty or inconsequential without knowing the background and history behind them. I kind of try to explain it but I'm at best a secondary source, and as such whatever info I try to convey on the matter is coloured by perception and understanding of the subject. If there are posters who are actually interested in some of these issues, I would recommend seeking out some literature by various trans and gay rights activists, writers, etc., so that you can get the unfiltered material.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's also an issue of institutionalized poverty and racism. If you have less money, you will have less access to lawyers and other ways of navigating the justice system. The biggest issue is that in America blacks were slaves not too long ago. After slavery ended, they weren't given any kind of restitution. Instead, they were ghettoized. People want to treat this like it was ancient history and something that black populations should have gotten over by now. However, formalized segregation was still happening as late as the 1960s. After it ended, the perception of blacks as criminals has persisted. For example, you have Bernie Sanders (a very pro-civil rights candidate) saying that all blacks live in ghettos. These perceptions of black Americans as poor and criminal become self-fulfilling prophecies.

While you right, that poverty may play a larger role than race, blacks are more likely to both impoverished and perceived as impoverished/criminal. This is why they need special organizations to deal with issues specific to them.

I don't disagree with this. But who is actually working to change this? Outrage and media coverage when a cop kills an unarmed black person .. the latest is now an armed one...but zero outrage over the killing fields in Chicago, which one could argue is partly due to cops no longer being able to do their jobs.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well there was the whole stiffer sentences for crack vs. cocaine that was going on for a while in some areas.

Certainly the crack epidemic of the 70s/80s in the inner city combined with the War on Drugs doesn't help...left a lot of kids without a father figure in their life.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I don't disagree with this. But who is actually working to change this? Outrage and media coverage when a cop kills an unarmed black person .. the latest is now an armed one...but zero outrage over the killing fields in Chicago, which one could argue is partly due to cops no longer being able to do their jobs.

The stiffer the penalties for drug crimes, the more risk involved which increases the price of the commodity being sold which enriches those selling it which makes confrontations over that commodity more high risk and violent.

The increasing pressure on the poor and low income has driven those populations into smaller and smaller enclaves which serves to increase the appearance of violent crime. Crime that would've otherwise been spread over a larger area has now become linked very specifically to low income areas.

Government policies which actively targeted black youth for incarceration has exacerbated the problem of poverty in these areas as whole generations of men are largely unemployable in these neighbourhoods which means resorting to more unsavoury methods of making money while at the same time increasing the competition for these measly scraps.

These things have all been carried out with the understanding of the consequences they create. This is by design.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The stiffer the penalties for drug crimes, the more risk involved which increases the price of the commodity being sold which enriches those selling it which makes confrontations over that commodity more high risk and violent.

The increasing pressure on the poor and low income has driven those populations into smaller and smaller enclaves which serves to increase the appearance of violent crime. Crime that would've otherwise been spread over a larger area has now become linked very specifically to low income areas.

Government policies which actively targeted black youth for incarceration has exacerbated the problem of poverty in these areas as whole generations of men are largely unemployable in these neighbourhoods which means resorting to more unsavoury methods of making money while at the same time increasing the competition for these measly scraps.

These things have all been carried out with the understanding of the consequences they create. This is by design.

So by design you are suggesting specifically to bring the black person down?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

So by design you are suggesting specifically to bring the black person down?

Yes. Specifically to oppress a specific visible minority.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The stiffer the penalties for drug crimes, the more risk involved which increases the price of the commodity being sold which enriches those selling it which makes confrontations over that commodity more high risk and violent.

The increasing pressure on the poor and low income has driven those populations into smaller and smaller enclaves which serves to increase the appearance of violent crime. Crime that would've otherwise been spread over a larger area has now become linked very specifically to low income areas.

Government policies which actively targeted black youth for incarceration has exacerbated the problem of poverty in these areas as whole generations of men are largely unemployable in these neighbourhoods which means resorting to more unsavoury methods of making money while at the same time increasing the competition for these measly scraps.

These things have all been carried out with the understanding of the consequences they create. This is by design.

You are right. Cops killing blacks is an ancillary issue - and by all accounts an issue greatly inflated by cognitive bias.

The real issue is the instrumental destruction of inner-city black communities, started by government, ignored by much of the black leadership, and perpetuated by both.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yes. Specifically to oppress a specific visible minority.

I think it went both ways, actually. Johnson's Great Society was almost certainly intended to benevolent, but probably had a net negative effect.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

You are right. Cops killing blacks is an ancillary issue - and by all accounts an issue greatly inflated by cognitive bias.

The real issue is the instrumental destruction of inner-city black communities, started by government, ignored by much of the black leadership, and perpetuated by both.

No, I completely disagree, if you got that from my post I should be more clear.

The lack of civilian oversight of police departments in North America is a direct result of racist policies that have been enacted largely by wealthy and prominent members of society.

Police departments and the justice system throughout North America are working by design. Calgarians have experienced this lately with Nenshi and the CPS. Crime is down and police budgets are up, and it's basically political suicide to want to change the equation due to the unassailable presence police have in our society.

The historical role of police and militia is the protection of property and the maintenance of public order. These are valuable, likely inherent to a functioning democracy, but the means don't justify the ends when the tyranny of the majority is enforced at the barrel of a legal gun.

Drug crime is a convenient excuse to root out 'unsavory' elements in society.